Hello, just purchased this old 20ga off of ********* and have had absolutely no luck identifying what it is. The person who I got it from said it was confiscated from the partisans by the Nazis and brought into the United States in the 1960's. There is no date of manufacture or words of any kind on it. I will upload the only markings on the gun. The octagon barrel is not in good shape and I doubt I will attempt to shoot it. Just trying to figure out what it is. I appreciate any input. Thank you.
People can create any kind of story.. Confiscated... brought in the 60's to the US? From where?
It's a single shot and the stock isn't original if it was ever a Nazi confiscation - the stock is all wrong for the gun. That's about as far as I can get with it.
thank you for the reply. seller said it came from the Kraguvic Arsenal in Yugoslavia. The stock has fine cracks top and bottom around the tang area. I tried to use the proof marks on it to find more info but I cannot find any info any where. I had hoped to be able to ID it as to possibly find a replacement stock. The action breaks open by swinging the trigger guard down and the action locks up nice and tight. Maybe I can reline the barrel in the future but as of now its just a wall hanger.
Is that a rifled bore? Yes, they made rifled bores on shotguns back then. It has an action which would have been known as "kiplauf" in Germany. It is possible it was taken from partisans by the Nazi's as that style of firearm was far from uncommon between the wars, and is still found today, but the provenance is pretty shaky, very shaky. That and why the long period of time between the end of the war and when it got to these shores?
Did you remove the barrel from the action and look at the bottom of it, near the breech end? That's where all the proofs should be and I find it difficult to believe that there are no proofs. No makers name isn't all that unusual but depending on when it was made it should have proofs. How is it the seller knows where it was made if there are no other marks? It looks a lot more German to me than anything else.
The stock is correct for the firearm. It wouldn't take much of a search to prove that. The Double Gun Journal has ran articles on that very action, stocked in that manner, as has the GGCA, (German Gun Collectors Assn.). I will concede that the forearm doesn't look right but if it's Yugoslav, (I am not certain I buy that one), it could be. A personal examination by someone familiar with European firearms would be your best bet.
Thank you for the info. I removed the forearm as well as the stock no markings. I cant get the barrel off because the pin holding it wont budge so I have been unable to look under the barrel at the breach end. The barrel does not appear to be rifled ( even tho there is an interesting rear V sight). Any info on removing the barrel pin? do these need to be pressed out? The seller got several of these odd looking single shots from an estate sale. I'm presuming this barrel is Damascus as it has an odd pattern to it and I should not shoot it. Barrel has some bad pitting as well. Ive been working on cleaning it up and the amount of dirt and gunk that has come out of it is incredible. It must have been kept in a damp environment for rust is prevailing. Its cleaned up quite nicely though. I will do some research on Kiplauf actions and see what I can come up with. Thanks again.
And just for information, it is just an older shotgun, not an antique, for a firearm to be considered an antique it must have been manufactured on or before the end of 1898. I hope you didn't pay too much for the story. The gun is European and is possibly a game keepers gun, because of the sling fixtures, although most of the game keeper guns I have observed were double barrel.
I confess to not being very familiar with the Kiplauf. I assumed the forearm came off and the barrel lifted off like most other single or double guns. Obviously not so and I do not know about the pin. However, if they are like drillings and combination guns, where the pin is should be a sort of cap that just serves to cover the pin. Once they are removed it should just push out, I can't believe a press being necessary. I know the what but not the how. I apologize for my ignorance. I can't tell from the pictures if it's Damascus or not. The pattern should be repetitive throughout the length of the barrel and look like swirls...for lack of a better term.
It is not a game keepers firearm. A good guess on them would be that 98% were drillings due to the duties and needs of the game keeper with the remainder being combination guns. Slings are/were put on about everything manufactured in central Europe so that doesn't indicate anything except that it is equipped with sling swivels.
If it isn't rifled what IS that in the bore?!?!?! Is that pits? That's strange!
Could be, but most of the shotguns I have seen that were listed as game keeper guns were of that nature, not drillings. Game keepers were not hunting anything, they carried shotgun to protect private preserves from poachers. I notice what looked like rifling or something odd in the barrel also.
That's the first time I ever saw that action used for a shotgun.....of course there is no reason not to but it's the first time I ever saw it. Sherman Bell in this issue of The Double Gun Journal had part of an article on a firearm with that very action chambered in 9.3 X 57 as the Germans called it or 360 - 2, 1/4, (I think), as the British called it. Two year ago one of the GGCA raffle firearms was a Kiplauf with that same action but I don't remember what cartridge it was chambered to.
As an aside, in the same article alluded to by Sherman Bell he did a write up on an Ideal actioned rifle in 8.15 X 46R. I had to go to my gun safe to see if my rifle was still there!!!!!! The one in the article was just about identical to one I have! From my experience with the rifle I have everything he said was true.
Game keepers did a LOT of culling and used the drilling or combination gun because they never knew when they would "need to/have the opportunity" to cull a less desirable critter. As you say they also kept a weather eye out for poachers too but I've never seen a firearm like that as having been or referred to as a game keepers gun. Nor is that last sentence to be taken as the end all, be all of what game keepers carried.
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