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Help identifying two antique(?) revolvers

3K views 12 replies 6 participants last post by  ampaterry 
#1 ·
I found two old (looking) revolvers on the family farm when tearing down the barn. I know next to nothing about revolvers, and could use some help identifying them. Does anyone know anything about either of these?



Thanks in advance for the help.
 
#2 ·
The first one is Spanish. An "Eibar" gun. Eibar is a region of Spain where there were bunches and bunches of little gunmakers. They are not a very good gun. Most Eibar revolvers were copies of Smith and Wesson or Colt, with their own little added twists.

https://www.google.com/search?q=eib...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/forum/H...istol-Only-markings-are-Crucero-on-191100.htm

The second one looks, to me, to be French or Belgian. And marking it as a Frontier (which was a Colt trademark) and chambering it in 44/40, which is what the Colt Frontier was chambered in, was a sales ploy to make people think they were buying a better gun than they were.

BUT, since that does not say FRONTIER, but says FRONTILR, I'm thinking Afghan. Handmade gun, copy of one they'd seen, with hand-engraved "Roll Marks", but since they are not English-speaking, and don't use our alphabet, they would often make "typos". Put letters on upside down, or backwards. Or use an L when they needed an E.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khyber_Pass_Copy
 
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#5 ·
The L looks more like an E with the center bar missing. I am thinking maybe a broken punch that stamped this?? It looks like a proof mark ahead of the cylinder on the right side - can you get a close up of this?
 
#6 · (Edited)
The "Frontier" is Belgian, and says so on barrel rib after the caliber marking.
They were a rough copy of the British Webley RIC model and were imported until WW-1. Attached is the listing in 1914 Sears catalog. By comparison, the Colt Frontier model in same catalog was $15.50. (Note Sears' caution: "for a person who does not do much shooting"....)
Gun Firearm Revolver Trigger Gun barrel


Hogg & Weeks' "Pistols of the World" lists Crucero as a brand name used by Ojanguren & Vidosa of Eibar.
 
#7 ·
The Crucero revolver is a Spanish copy of a gun made by a Belgian firm named Pieper. The little lever on the frame behind the hammer is a safety catch. It is a swing-out cylinder gun; the catch on the frame in front of the cylinder holds it closed. I have seen some guns of this type chambered for French 8mm revolver ammunition, and others for 32-20 Winchester, also known as 32 WCF. The latter seems more likely for a gun found on a farm, but who knows?

I think the Crucero name was used in World War I and the 1920's, but it may have existed earlier. It is associated with a Spanish company called Crucelegui Hermanos (Hermanos = Brothers).

The "Frontier Army" is probably Belgian, as it is marked, but it could be a Spanish forgery. If I had to describe it, I would call it a vague copy of a solid-frame Webley. One thing I know for sure is that I would not fire it with 44 Winchester (also known as 44 WCF or 44-40), because that is a fairly powerful round.

Both of these were cheap guns when new, and were of poor quality compared to most American-made guns. Pistols of these general types were imported into the United States from roughly the 1890's until the Spanish Civil War ended the trade about 1936. Revolvers of this type probably do not date later than the 1920's, though, and they would have been rather old-fashioned even then.

Thanks for putting up very good pictures, AlexxelA!

PS - WCF = "Winchester Center Fire".
 
#9 ·
How could I expect any help without good pictures! Thanks for all the great info. You guys are way more helpful than reddit. Does anybody have an idea of how much these are worth? Also, how would I go about selling these if I wanted to? Forgive me, I am a newbie when it comes to guns.

After looking at the Frontier closer it looks like the middle bar is missing. Here's a closer picture:
 
#10 ·
>How could I expect any help without good pictures!<

You know, you'd think everyone would realize that. Sadly, most don't.
 
#11 ·
They are not worth very much, IMO, Alexxela. Not many people collect these, and the ones who do don't want them with a smooth coat of rust, and they don't want them harshly cleaned, either. They would sell well as decorative pieces, but I don't know what a good value for that might be - less than $100 each?

Unfortunately, since they were probably made after 1898, they are not antiques under the terms of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968. If they were antiques under that law, they could be sold without any paperwork*. As it is, I don't know; I hope someone else here can advise you.

*Unless you live in New Jersey, or California, or some other state with unusual gun laws.
 
#13 ·
I have found several gun sites where these have been sold - range from less than 100 to a bit over 300.
Hey, guys, it is obvious from that close up that the E was stamped with a broken punch which left it with no middle bar.
Coin collectors place HIGH value on coins that have errors in the stamping.
Stamp collectors place HIGH value on stamps that are misprinted.
Would an obvious error in original marking add value to this piece?
I would think that collectors of Belgium arms from the 1880 period would really want this addition to their collection - -
 
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