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Help Reloading 308 ammo!!!! Die Problems!!

4K views 28 replies 6 participants last post by  gdmoody 
#1 ·
I'm having a problem reloading my LC once fired 308 brass. I already bought Hornady and RCBS dies and still the same problem. The problem in having is that the expander ball is over expending the brass. When I try seating the bullet it just falls in. I measured the case opening and at 7.85mm and the Berger bullets are at 7.80mm. I dont want to spend more money on 308 dies if they arent going to work. I already sent and received the Hornady dies back but still the same problem
 
#2 ·
Take the decapping rod out of the die and measure the expander ball. It should measure .305" or 7.73mm. Try running a case into the die with out the decapping rod in the die and see if it will hold a bullet properly then. If your expander ball measures correctly and if running a case into the die without the decapping rod doesn't help, then you have a problem with your cases.
 
#3 ·
Take the decapping rod out of the die and measure the expander ball. It should measure .305" or 7.73mm. Try running a case into the die with out the decapping rod in the die and see if it will hold a bullet properly then.
I meassured the expander ball and it measured at .304 . The bullets measure at .307-.308. I measured a few cases and they are from .310-.312 now, so what it seems like now its not the ball but the cases. Is there a way to size that cases down?
 
#4 ·
I don't intend to be insulting, but have to ask - are you certain that the dies are adjusted correctly? I find it almost impossible to believe that both Hornady and RCBS would ship a die set with the same oversize expander ball, though anything's possible. What seems more likely to me is that the necks aren't being resized down to the spec in the first place. That would lead me to check that the die is being pressed down into full contact with the shell holder. Just a guess, and if you're a long time, seasoned reloader who long ago mastered the hobby, I apologize for suggesting such a basic oversight.
 
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#6 ·
I've had a similar issue with 8x57 cases. I ran the necks into a 308 die, then ran it back through the 8x57 die. That worked for me since nothing else worked and I tried everything. If you have a 7mm-08 die run the necks into it then back into the 308 die.
 
#9 ·
DrillBitNailer:

Who's brass is it? If the walls are too thin then the sizing die will not make the throat small enough for the expander ball to even touch the inside of the wall in the throat of the case. The bullet will drop in or have little to no neck tension. It is not the die but the cases.

I had that same problem with some crapy CBC Brazilian 50BMG cases. Had to trash them and buy good Lake City Mil Surp brass.

LDBennett
 
#13 ·
OK i got a new problem now. Sorry but im not a seasoned reloader, I was deployed for half a year so im still a little rusty at it. Specially since its my first time reloading 308. I resized and everything now my problem is that once i seat the bullet it doesnt crimp all the way and i can pull the bullet out of the case by hand. When i try adjusting the die it just damaged the case. using RCBS dies with 30 cal sierra bullets 168gr hp
 
#15 ·
It did, the original issue was that the bullet would just fall in. I guess i wasnt fully resizing the case. I fixed that. Called RCBS and they helped me out. Now it looks like the neck only shrunk a little at the top that why the bullet now doesnt fall all the way in. When I load the bullet it goes in and stays on fine but if i try to pull it out or push it in it doesnt stay.
 
#16 ·
DrillBitNailer:

Like I said earlier I think you problem is brass with thin walls. To prove this accurately measure the wall thickness of your brass and some commercial brass from a name brand maker and compare.

A possible solution even for brass that is too thin would be to use the LEE Rifle Factory Crimp Die (FCD). It usually cares little about the wall thickness of the case because it works totally differently than a regular roll crimp die.

A regular crimp die has a ledge inside the seating die. As the case is moved upward to seat the bullet the end of the case hits the die ledge and folds over into the bullet.

The LEE Rifle FCD uses a collet that pushes horizontal as it closes down when the case is pushed upward by the press.The action is horizontal not vertical so you can adjust it easier. It is a separate die so you seat with the regular die then use the FCD to crimp as a separate step.

I have never seen your problem on name brand American made brass. I did see it on some new Brazilian CBC 50 BMG brass (wall thickness too thin). It is hard to believe that Mil Surp Lake City brass could have this problem because of all the Government specs that have to be inspected for. Is this maybe not once fired but seconds?

The way the sizing die works is:

As the case enters the die the throat is expanded by the firing so passes over the decapping pin no problem. At the top of the die the throat as well as the body is squeezed down to spec except that the throat is made tighter than necessary. As the case is remove from the die, the expander ball on the recapping pin brings the throat diameter into spec by expansion. If the decapping pin is removed and the throat of the case is still too big (assuming there is nothing wrong with the die) you probably could not even get a bullet into the throat of the case. If the expander ball is bigger than the bullet diameter (it should be a couple thousandth of an inch smaller if all is right) then you have your problem with the die.

Measuring the bullet, the throat inside diameter after sizing, the expander ball and the case wall thickness compared to known good commercial brass allow you to find out what exactly is wrong. I think there is a much higher chance that it is the cases or the bullet and not the precision made RCBS die. But anything is possible. For things to be right the wall thickness has to be to spec. According to my reloading manual the case wall thickness at the throat should between 0.017 to 0.018 inches. The bullet should be 0.308 inches.

Hope this helps.

LDBennett
 
#17 ·
The lack of neck tension I believe is caused by thin necks. That's what my problem was any way. The problem now is you're trying to roll crimp a bullet without a cannelure. They can't be roll crimped if they don't have a cannelure. You're either going to need a taper crimp or not crimp at all.
 
#19 ·
DrillBitNailer:

I am so curious of what your problem might be. Please do those measurement for me to satisfy my curiosity. I just measured some R-P once fired cases and some new Remington/Peters and some Lake City once fired cases and the wall thickness is 0.0145 inches. But you have to chamfer the inside and outside of the case and only measure the last 1/32 of an inch of the throat. What do yours measure? All the 308 I have ever loaded has more than sufficient neck tension without crimping but if it goes in a semi-auto then it gets LEE FCD crimping. The LEE FCD needs no cannelure. It can be erroneous adjusted distort the bullet and leave a permanent crease. That is not ideal and should not be done but it is possible without damaging the case.

If there is no neck tension you can NOT not crimp at all. The bullet must be secure in the case or the cartridge my become dangerous when the bullet migrates into the case with handling. The LEE FCD may just do the deed (??).

LDBennett
 
#20 ·
I use rcbs dies on my 308 and 3006

It is apparrent you are not atjusting your dies correctly either for resizing or for roll crimp.

PS. which rcbs Die set do you have? (FL, small base.. etc? )

You have to go thru a specif ic procedure to seat to the correct depth, then readjust for the roll crimp, then readjust using that test case and reset your seater plug so you can seat and crimp in one operation.

Both will require properly sized brass to start with however.
 
#24 ·
I use rcbs dies on my 308 and 3006

It is apparrent you are not atjusting your dies correctly either for resizing or for roll crimp.

PS. which rcbs Die set do you have? (FL, small base.. etc? )

You have to go thru a specif ic procedure to seat to the correct depth, then readjust for the roll crimp, then readjust using that test case and reset your seater plug so you can seat and crimp in one operation.

Both will require properly sized brass to start with however.
I set up the die so that the case goes all the way in two twist away from crushing the case.
 
#21 ·
To the OP.

are you using a projectile with a cennelure? you need to be to use roll crimp.

Also? are you checking and trimming your bottleneck brass to a uniform trim to size. you should be if using roll crimp. and should at least check it even if using the FCD, as if it grows TOO much you will get chambering issues.
 
#22 ·
I first tried using Hornady dies but those were sent to harnady and turned out to be defective. I was loading 30-06 using rcbs and dint have a problem they worked perfect so i bout the 308 FL rcbs dies. The bullets that I'm using are the Sierra 175gr HPBT 30 cal. When I removed the decaping pin and rod and tried resizing it that way. I set the dies all the way so that the neck of the case does not get crushed down and damage the case. After I did that I re installed the resizing ball then resized all the cases again. I was about to start loading them with the powder but decided to do a dry round tp make sure the bullet was being seated properly. It seats perfectly and all. If i try pulling the bullet out with a little bit of pressure with my hand it slides out until the whole bullet is out. If I try to push it in it falls in. I'll post a video so you can see what im talking about
 
#23 ·
soundguy:

He has no neck tension at all and can push the bullets into the cases. He tried to save the day with an excessive crimp but collapsed the case shoulder. I think the brass is too thin and does not get sized down enough because of that. There should be neck tension. It could be the expander ball is the wrong size (too big) but he has not fed back that dimension yet. These are new dies according to him. RCBS rarely makes sizing mistakes on their dies in my experience. Cases are drawn from flat sheet stock and the drawing process has a lot of steps and it may be a lot of this brass got through that is out of spec (??). But a crimping problem is only a symptom.

LDBennett
 
#27 ·
I just received a new expander ball that rcbs send me. I'm going to try that. I think im doing this wrong.
I thought he said the exp ball measured .304

the neck thickness will be easy to measure to see if it is a problem. I've never had real LC brass that had this issue.

I have however seen counterfit ( china) brass with a LC headstamp

I'm still wondering if the op is fl resizing correctly with ram all the way up and die screwed in to kiss.

another goid test would be to toss a pie or three commercial brass in and see what they do.
Thanks for all the help!!!!!! I changed the expander ball which measured .304 and lowered the die like you suggested and it worked. Thanks again.. To everyone. The only thing i gotta worry about now is that I already primed like 100 rounds earlier and now i have to resize that brass again. bummer.
 
#26 ·
I thought he said the exp ball measured .304

the neck thickness will be easy to measure to see if it is a problem. I've never had real LC brass that had this issue.

I have however seen counterfit ( china) brass with a LC headstamp

I'm still wondering if the op is fl resizing correctly with ram all the way up and die screwed in to kiss.

another goid test would be to toss a pie or three commercial brass in and see what they do.
 
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