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Hey Guys/Gals, do you remember....

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2003.

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    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1504
    (9/1/01 12:35:56 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All Hey Guys/Gals, do you remember....
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    ...what post we discussed snipers and "Enemy at the Gates" in a while back? I believe we may have also talked about Carlos Hathcock in it too...

    I can't find it, and Rayra is asking about Snipers in Stalingrad...I remember lots of good stuff posted there...

    Maybe I'm having Didja Voo...or going senile.


    Well, I didn't win the Powerball, so I still collect Russian Crap and variants thereof. ( And am darn happy I can!)

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 854
    (9/1/01 8:41:45 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hey Guys/Gals, do you remember....
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    Yeah, I remember it.....must be buried under the rubble.

    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 357
    (9/1/01 6:57:07 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hey Guys/Gals, do you remember....
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    I looked for it and used the search and could not find it.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1509
    (9/1/01 9:24:51 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hey Guys/Gals, do you remember....
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    Stupid question...that wasn't a LONG time ago, like at GB, was it????

    I don't think we've archived any from any forum but GD yet....Hhhmmm....

    Maybe I'll have to go back there (Shudder!), and check and see if I can cut and paste it over here if it is....

    Goin' on a Mission to the Dark Side...
    Well, I didn't win the Powerball, so I still collect Russian Crap and variants thereof. ( And am darn happy I can!)

    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 362
    (9/1/01 10:16:40 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hey Guys/Gals, do you remember....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Godspeed Polish and wear the tinfoil.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1512
    (9/1/01 10:43:34 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del FOUND IT!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It took awhile, their search sucks, every topic had the same title, had to check EVERY one, and yes this was the LAST one i checked...let's see if this works, I've never done this before...yes it was at Gunbroker, so if I have to attribute sources, there it is, attributed.


    Author Topic: Enemy at the Gate- any good?
    steve45
    Member posted 03-22-2001 01:37 AM
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    the weapons look authentic,whats the opinion of the experts?
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    graybeardt
    Member posted 03-22-2001 02:07 AM
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    Haven't seen the movie, yet. It is based on the book "The War of the Rats". Should be K98 mausers and 30-40 Krag for the Russians, I think. Finished book about 4 weeks ago, and my memory has gone the way of my eyesight. I hope it is as good as the book, but they almost never are.
    graybeardt
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    SNIPER1048
    Member posted 03-22-2001 05:44 AM
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    TRY READING A GREAT BOOK TITLED: THE MASTER
    SNIPER BY STEVEN HUNTER. ONE GREAT SCENE IN THE BOOK HAS HIM TAKING OUT 450 RUSSIANS IN AN ATTACK IN STALINGRAD AND LIVING TO TELL ABOUT IT.
    ------------------
    "START THE BALL ROLLING THERE, TECTOR"

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    anad
    Member posted 03-22-2001 11:09 AM
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    The movie is very good. It portrays the terror of war, the ways of a sniper, and the weapons were authentic. K98k w/Henscholdt 4x scope vs. Moisin-Nagant 91/30. Some cheesy parts and an ubiquitous sex scene, but very well done overall. it will definitely become part of my video library when it comes out on tape/dvd
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    Highball
    Member posted 03-22-2001 11:39 AM
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    I thought the movie sucked.Love story.The only thing interesting was the all too brief psyops between the snipers.
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    God,Guts,& Guns
    Have we lost all 3 ??

    [This message has been edited by Highball (edited 03-22-2001).]

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    jonk
    Member posted 03-22-2001 12:39 PM
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    I agree with anad completely. Would have been better without the sex scene, if you can call it that. More properly a rutting scene between two filthy animals. The guns were good though. I couldn't help but grin at the beginning- some officers had Nagant revolvers. I could only think, "they better go easy on that ammo, since only Fiocchi makes it! :)"
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    SP Tiger
    Member posted 03-22-2001 02:21 PM
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    I haven't seen it yet, but my brother-in-law told me it pretty much sucked. I still am going to go see it though. I had a feeling when I saw previews and it showed a little love story in the making that it would probably suck. Hollywood can ruin anything.
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    Better to have and not need, than need and not have.

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    polishshooter
    Member posted 03-22-2001 11:17 PM
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    Son and friend went to see it, he is WWII buff, and WWII gun nut too, I "debriefed" him after he said I HAVE to see it, and it's a buyer!
    Good use of Mosins (even though he is just an Arisaka expert. He couldn't even tell me if they had high-walls or low-walls, brass fittings, OR have dog collar slings! So can you REALLY trust what he says...), love scene a little unbelievable, and the true story of the duel between the German sniper ace and the regular joe Rusky sniper was embellished only a little.

    In real life, at least from available Soviet sources, the hunt lasted 5 days, the commissar came up to witness for propaganda reasons, stood up and yelled,"There he is!" and got popped. Soviet still didn't see him, spotter did the "Helmet on a stick trick" (Which my son said was overdone in other parts of the movie) and got the kraut to fire, Soviet already had his sights on a piece of sheet metal in the street, saw the shot, and put a x54 round through the sheet metal and got the Kraut. He had his hide in a hole underneath. That's the straight scoop.

    Of course the truth wasn't good enough so they added to it...but at least they tried.

    Still have to see it though...

    Remember guys, new stuff is starting to come out every DAY about what REALLY happened on the Russian Front. Up to the end of the Cold War everything we had was either German spin or Soviet propaganda...there are so many untapped original sources uncovered in the last 10 years it makes the Historian's head spin.

    Look for more movies about the eastern front soon...

    Now "Pearl Harbor" may be a dog...except for the Naval intelligence just declassified, there's not much new, so it may be just a rehash....with love interests.

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    warpig883
    Member posted 03-22-2001 11:20 PM
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    I saw this story on the History channel. If I remember correctly they said the bullet went through the scope without touching the sides and got the German sniper in the eye. This has been duplicated in other films and books. But this was supposed to be where it happened.
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    I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled it with a great resolve - Japanese Admiral Yamamoto,after Pearl Harbor.


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    shari71
    Member posted 03-22-2001 11:37 PM
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    No, That was Carlos Hathcock that did that, look for the book Marine Sniper.
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    warpig883
    Member posted 03-22-2001 11:39 PM
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    shari71, Am I losing my mind completely or was Hathcock also a medal of honor recipient?
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    I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled it with a great resolve - Japanese Admiral Yamamoto,after Pearl Harbor.


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    Drachenstein
    Member posted 03-22-2001 11:40 PM
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    Would have been much better if they stuck to the true story without the hollywood hoopla ie; love story and gun slinger ending. I really liked the authentic use of equipment. The stukas were outstanding, the panzers excellant and the morale/propaganda accurate. It really portrayed both sides well.
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    bhale187
    Member posted 03-23-2001 02:32 AM
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    Not a history buff, but I hear this is supposed to be based on russian sniper that had 190 confirmed germman kills in the one battle-anyone know if that's correct?
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    polishshooter
    Member posted 03-24-2001 01:06 AM
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    There were several Russian snipers that had over 100 kills at Stalingrad. It was a ready made fight for snipers in the rubble...
    Yeah, it was Hathcock who made that shot on the NVA sniper in 'Nam. The latest reincarnation was in "Saving Private Ryan."

    Hathcock fired at the glint of the sun off of glass, really had no other sight picture.
    When they found him, the bullet had gone through the scope with out touching the sides and out the back of the NVA's head. The only way that happens is if the scope is pointed DIRECTLY at him, so the win went to the quicker trigger...

    Ironically, the weapon the crack NVA sniper was using was a scoped Mosin Nagant. About 25 years AFTER Stalingrad. So there was a connection however slight...

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    DENWA
    Member posted 03-24-2001 01:17 AM
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    God bless you Gunny Hathcock, You left us all too soon!
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    davem3
    Member posted 03-24-2001 02:17 AM
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    Enjoyed the movie overall but thought the high noon shootout ending was a typical Hollywood mistake. Good quote on History Channel tonight--" when Hollywood goes to war, the first casualty is usually the truth".
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    jonk
    Member posted 03-24-2001 12:02 PM
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    Ok guys, hold on to your hats...
    Found out that in real life, Vassily and the TAnia woman (or whatever her name was) really did have an affair while he was at Stalingrad. So the sappy romance story was actually based in truth.

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    5db
    Member posted 03-24-2001 12:57 PM
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    warpig883, Gunny Hathcock was not awarded the MOH.

    ------------------
    If you have one shot...
    Accu-Shot Website

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    beachmaster73
    Member posted 03-24-2001 03:41 PM
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    Hathcock's highest medal while on active duty was the Navy Commendation Medal with "V". It wasn't until many years after he had retired and was in fact in the near terminal stage of his life that the Corps got around to awarding him a Silver Star for his John Wayne number that he did against the NVA Battalion. If he had been in the Army no doubt in my mind that his "John Wayne" would have earned him the MOH. During the Tet offensive Marchenko wrote about the two SEALS and one Army Green Beret who went around rescuing and drawing off the VC in the vicinity of Hue.....the Army awarded the GB the MOH...the Navy awarded the SEALS a couple of Bronze Stars...talk about a disparity!
    On second thought now that the position of the Purple Heart Medal has been revised I guess that it would have been his highest medal before the SSM. Beach
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    polishshooter
    Member posted 03-24-2001 07:36 PM
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    When did Carlos Hathcock die? It couldn't have been too long ago.
    Last I heard he was still alive, even after all those burns from his last tour where they thought for sure he was going to...

    I liked his story about the white feather. The VC and NVA had stories and legends about the sniper with the "Eagle Feather" in his hat, Hathcock said he just found it one day while walking and for all he knew it could have been from a chicken...

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    SP Tiger
    Member posted 03-24-2001 08:13 PM
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    I think it was in 1999, I can't remember exactly. I have his obituary laminated around here somewhere, I just can't find it.
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    Better to have and not need, than need and not have.

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    alledan
    Member posted 03-24-2001 08:55 PM
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    It was around february 1999 if I remember correctly. I believe they said he had MS.
    He went down to live in florida and kept killing the only viable enemy he could find-the shark.
    He will be surely missed!
    ------------------
    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion --
    the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases,
    while the citizens may act only by permission --
    which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history,
    the stage of rule by brute force."




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    polishshooter
    Member posted 03-25-2001 05:35 PM
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    While I hate to EVER quote the media, the actress that played the woman in the love scene was on the CBS Morning show last week and she said the love scene WAS historically accurate.
    She also told of handling Mosin Nagants and how heavy they were and how hard they recoiled, and Brian Gumbel just looked at her with a REAL dumb look on his face...

    She pronounced it right, so I guess they had to actually shoot them to prepare for the movie. You can't fault ANY movie if they at least try....


    I remember years ago when they interviewed Mark Hamill after "The Big Red One." He said they filmed in Israel. and had to sleep in foxholes, shoot the M1, etc, and he said it was so realistic, that once they were taking a break, actually napping in foxholes, and there was a Palestinian terrorist attack nearby. Lee Marvin came and woke them up and told them to "saddle up" they were going to "go after the terrorists."

    Hamill said they all actually got up and were checking their Garands before it hit them that Marvin was screwing with them...that's how realistic their "training" was.

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    fishface
    Member posted 03-26-2001 06:04 PM
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    First part, 10-15 minutes and the last 10-15minutes, were the best...too much huggy kissy stuff in between....it should'a been a documentary. The HISTORY CHANNEL STORY ABOUT THESE TWO SNIPER'S WAS MUCH BETTER!
    What the Documentary stated 'a battle came to a stand still' when these two squared off, this was not depicted by the holli-wood version.
    [This message has been edited by fishface (edited 03-26-2001).]

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    idsman75
    Member posted 03-26-2001 06:16 PM
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    The picture of the Mosin-Nagant on the movie poster shows the bolt handle on the left side. Was that sniper left-handed? Was it historically accurate? Some of use were banging that idea around a bit. Any biters?
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    "1911: The original point-and-click interface"

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    spec.4
    Member posted 03-26-2001 09:23 PM
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    Gunnery Sergeant Carlos N. Hathcock II (57 years young) died on Feb. 23, 1999 about 06:00 from Multiple sclerosis in Virginia Beach, Va.. He served two tour in Vietnam and had 93 "confirmed" kills. If that helps any one who is trying to find the date. And he is from Arkansas!!!!!! Had to add that in there too, at less someone GREAT came out of that state. (Sorry, I had to put that in there.)
    [This message has been edited by spec.4 (edited 03-26-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by spec.4 (edited 03-26-2001).]

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    Highball
    Member posted 03-27-2001 12:49 PM
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    hey,spec4,watch your mouth----some of us ridgerunners might take exception to that crack and forget that this board is supposed to be a love fest.
    ------------------
    God,Guts,& Guns
    Have we lost all 3 ??

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    polishshooter
    Member posted 03-27-2001 07:27 PM
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    The left handed MN was probably a reversed photo used for the poster. As far as I know they only made right handed ones. I think the Soviets gave you a choice, you either shot right-handed or shoveled snow and reindeer crap in Siberia until you learned how!
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    spec.4
    Member posted 03-27-2001 08:24 PM
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    Hey, don't shoot, I am from Arkansas too, alittle town called Pyatt. It is between Harrison and Yellville, off of Hwy. 62. What I was trying to say is that, we can look up to Gunny then to Clintons. Sorry for stepping on some toes out there.
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    Sp0ckz
    Member posted 03-29-2001 09:19 AM
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    I snipe therefore I am!
    Try the iSnipe website, pretty good info.

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    Sp0ckz
    AR-15 lover.

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    SP Tiger
    Member posted 03-29-2001 02:38 PM
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    My wife and I are going to see it tonight, despite what I've heard. I guess it'll be worth it.
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    Better to have and not need, than need and not have.

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    Highball
    Member posted 03-29-2001 10:38 PM
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    spec.4--ever hear of Compton ? Lived on the Buffalo,a lifetime ago.Snead Creek.Glorius country.


    Well, I didn't win the Powerball, so I still collect Russian Crap and variants thereof. ( And am darn happy I can!)
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