Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by polishshooter, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    And, P, how is THIS for a "Lesson Plan" for your students.

    Three "Mature" History Scholars (OK, I will ask for your dispensation to use the term...) who studied History in THREE DIFFERENT eras, at WIDELY diverse Universities, but all of which we agree were to varying degrees, decidedly "Liberal.'...

    ALL turn out to be CONSERVATIVES (Check out ALL our signatures! :D ) who meet on a PRO-GUN BOARD!

    SO, did an "Appreciation of History" make us Conservative Gun-Nuts in our old age?

    ...OR did the fact we are "Conservative Gun Nuts" give us an appreciation for HISTORY our entire lives???????

    Gosh, you ought to be able to do a WEEK on that one, and maybe swing one or two "I'm a liberal and don't know why!" mush headed 18 yr olds into deciding not to VOTE next election if you can't get them signed up as NRA members... :)
  2. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Of course, the dispensation was meant for "Scholars," but I guess it could equally apply to "Mature..." :cool:

  3. :D
    An interesting question, Polish. I think either position could be true, depending on whom the subject is. In my own case, I would tend toward the former rather than the latter. I've been a gun nut since I was old enough to understand what firearms were, but as a kid--up until I was a college history major--I had little political interest beyond strong patriotism. Well, I did join the California College Republicans when I was going to school at Fresno State in 1967, which made me somewhat unpopular with many of the profs and some of the students, not that I gave a rat's a$$. :D
  4. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

    I can truthfully say that I have ALWAYS been a staunch conservative. I guess it comes from growing up with two staunch conservatives and adament supporters of the Constitutional Republic. My parents were Northern New England Blue Bloods, DAR & SAR on both sides, who were very opposed to the Cabot Lodge eastern liberal faction of the GOP and their economic policies. Rather they were hawks and believers of everything the Founding Fathers stood for, especially small federal involvement, fiscal responsibility and protection of ALL the Bills of Rights.

    I began shooting at age four and had my own .22 calibre rifle at six, a Winchester Model 67 single shot. Dad told me that whenever I brought home five rabbits in the same day with the single shot, he would get me a repeater. Around my seventh birthday I was the proud owner of a Marlin 39, which was just right for this southpaw shooter. Grew up on venison and bear meat with no shortage of either in my memory.

    When I was at Rutgers in the mid-fifties among some of the most liberal/socialist/pinko/communist professors as a majority were, I was well known on campus, more so than the staff people, since I was always in the headlines of the campus news refuting just about everything they printed and wanted the student body to swallow. I had more fun baiting these folks than a barrel of monkies on the loose with all the food they could eat..... Had one very radical professor that would jump up on his desk and shout the line if you ever got him started by defending the capitalist economic system.

    I seemed to prgressively get more conservative and more constitutional from my days as a youngster up to and including nowadays. Never went through any doubts nor slid backwards; always sighted forward..... Staunchly defended the "true" interpretation of the Constitution in any capacity I had in the law field, be it prosecutor or jurist.
  5. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Funny thing, Marlin, we parallel pretty nicely (IF you substitute "descended from poor Polish peasant turnip farmers who emigrated in 1880 and 1910" for..."descended from bluebloods" :cool: )

    What's funny is the story in MY family, MUCH "oral" history (My dad dropped out of school in the 8th grade to work on the farm during the depression, and then into factories to help the family until drafted for WWII...)

    MANY "Polish-Americans" are die-hard Democrats, and when I was LITTLE I asked my Dad about that (if I remember right, it was while we were watching the RNC convention in 68, I would have been 10...living in the country just south of Buffalo NY.)

    (My dad was the "definition" of 'Die-Hard REPUBLICAN'...his BEST friend was the Towns Justice of the peace, a DEMOCRAT, that everybody loved, ex-marine NCO who lost both legs to a mine in Korea, {i.e.,NOT a "liberal"} so he was endorsed by both parties and ran unopposed for as long as I can remember, and he is STILL alive, and STILL a "Town Justice" back home! He was "officially a member of BOTH parties,,,

    At our town Republican picnic when I was in high school, when I went to help Dad who wsa in a wheelchair, he was sitting by Al, also in a wheelchair, by the beer tent, calmly waiting to meet our Representative, Jack Kemp who was coming to the picnic. My dad turned to his BEST friend and told him, "Al, I'm happy I get to vote for you as a REPUBLICAN because I never pulled a lever for a Democrat in my life, and I wouldn't even for you." I was flabbergasted. and embarrassed, but even more surprised when Al said,"Harry, I understand, I'm just happy 'you guys' would have me..."!

    This is the same guy that when we were burying my father, and getting him ready to be laid out, my Mom was panicking, because Dad said he wanted to be buried wearing his American Legion pin, and she couldn't find his pin...I called Al to see if he had an extra one, and 5 MINUTES later he's in our driveway blowing his horn {both he and Dad drove with hand-controls) with his OWN pin and said he would take it as an honor if Dad was buried wearing HIS Post-Commander's pin, and we could all say he was promoted post-humously. As an aside, WHERE are AMERICAN-Democrats like that TODAY??? BESIDES Zell Miller.... :mad: )

    Anyway, I asked my Dad about the Polish Democrat thing, and he told me HIS father (who was born on the boat on the way over, so by law was an AMERICAN citizen from birth, and was so proud he probably started EVERY new conversation with "Hi, I'm Mike and am an American Citizen by birth..." :) I played with ancestry.com and found a census form he filled out when MY dad was 8 and where it asks where/when born, there is BOLD handwriting, AMERICA, 1880 ) told HIM that when HIS father, my "great-grand..." got off the boat with his family, as SOON as they got through immigration, the FIRST person they run into is a person from the Democratic party, with a whole spiel about "This is a Democracy so you have to be a Democrat..." See? They were lying even THEN! :cool:

    The story is My Great-Grandfather told the guy, (probably in broken English) that he didn't know enough about politics to get involved YET, and walked away!)

    After working odd jobs near NYC until he could save up money, he then moved his family to Buffalo, NY, and bought a farm in Cheektowaga, (which is NOW part of the site of the Buffalo Int'l Airport!) and registered REPUBLICAN.

    My Dad said HIS Dad told him "All the 'Dumb Polaks' stayed in the cities and vote Democrat." And I STILL can't argue that! SOME Polaks are learned, and some are quite unlearned, but that does NOT necessarily equate to 'Smart" and "Dumb" Polaks!!!! :cool:

    In 1927 my "Great" was now dead so his kids sold the land for the airport, and my Grandfather moved out in the country (to the snow-belt south of Buffalo, to an area where there were LOT's of other Polish people around (I thought EVERYBODY had long last names when I was a kid, as well as thought everybody in the WORLD got that much snow! :) )

    Grew up with guns, BUT Dad was a "practical, no more than you need" person, and thought ANYBODY with more than one gun, (or maybe TWO, because you needed a .22 rifle if you had a trapline, or rats and pigeons in the barn... :) ) was a goof and wasting money! And since he hunted pheasants, rabbits, squirrel, partridge, since he was a kid, and Deer since the first NY season in 1946, (shotgun only,) his 16 ga. Remington Sportsman 48 he bought from the Monkey Ward catalogue after the war was "All a man needed!" Even though his brother ordered the same gun at the same time in 12 ga, and he ALWAYS said he wished he had it in 12, I'm glad he didn't... :cool:

    Anyway, when my older brother was about 9 or 10, Dad bought an OLD used savage 220 in 12 for "us," He took him out back to shoot it, and after a few "bird-shot rounds" had him shoot some slugs "to learn how to handle recoil" I remember my brother's black and blue shoulders, so when it was MY turn years later, my bro' gave me some foam rubber we used as sponges to clean the cars to put inside my shirt, said that was what HE did.

    When I was 12, all I asked for Xmas was for a .22 rifle. I ASKED for a Marlin 60, but my Dad said "No Kid should have a semi..."

    Xmas morning I see that LONG box, and I'm wetting my pants. In it was the PRETTIEST Marlin 25 BA .22 WITH SCOPE you ever saw!!! And that's ALL I got, (besides clothes( had top save the pennies to buy my OWN SHELLS! (I remember, $.49 for the GOOD ones...)

    ... best Xmas I REMEMBER until I had kids....

    I remember when I turned 13, Dad's legs were going bad, (he had a wierd cross between Amiatrophic Lateral and Multiple Sclerosis (basically ALS WITH the life span of MS), so he was on disability but doing all kinds of odd jobs for cash (appointed Town Constable, mainly serving papers) and also he and Mom did the "Dog Census" counting dogs and issueing summonses to the owners to get licenses, (Got paid $.50/dog, $.25 a pup, you did NOT hide a dog from THEM :p ) I was doing homework after dinner, and Mom and Dad were going to catch some "kennel licenses" and about a half hour later, Dad is back in the driveway tooting the horn, and when I go out he says, "Do you have $3?" I say yes, he says get it, hop in, you are going to be hunting next year, it's about time you bought a GUN DOG. Seems that my poor mom was left to sign up the dogs at a kennel where they raised English Setters, and when dad heard the puppies they had were from a WITNESSED mating with a German Shorthair who jumped the fence from another kennel right down the road, and they would give a statement to that, and were selling the pups for $3, no papers :) DAd backed out and LEFT her there...

    My schooldays from then on until I left for college, were TOO LONG...EVERY day OUT of season when Dad didn't have work for me to do around the house, I was out in the woods with the .22 "plinking," from September -Oct 1st it was "Tippy" and me and the 220 after Woodcock, and after October 1st, Partridge! (Grouse.)

    ANYWAY, politically I was 10 during the election of '68, and I was also beginning to read old G&As my future bro-in-law gave me (who happened to live in the city BUT collected Mausers, so EVERY weekend he was at our house with a new Mauser and a bunch of shells...But go figure, a TEACHER, heavily into the UNION, and a LIBERAL "CLinton" lover, who BTW, just MADE sure he bought two new AK47s right before the BAN.... :mad: You think THAT'S why I don't like Mausers? :cool: ) and also reading American Rifleman that that "Good Democrat" JP I talked about earlier gave me...

    ...so I remember the debate over the GCA '68 VIVIDLY. I knew Senator Birch Bayh, D-In, by name , sight, voice, and LIES. That was my first exposure to National Politics, besides singing "Nixon now, more than ever... :p "

    A few years later I remember watching results with my Dad and jumping up and down and yelling when I saw Bayh got beat by some "no name" named Quayle...

    My FIRST election I got to vote in I remember voting for Gerald Ford and Jack Kemp... At least ONE was a "real conservative..."

    Lo and behold, YEARS and TRANSFERS later, who would have guessed I would be a HOOSIER, TRYING to warn EVERYBODY that will listen that Senator EVAN BAYH, D-In, is a just a SMART Socialist Liberal...he KNOWS how to HIDE it....the only way he is NOT like his "Dirty Old Man!" :mad:

    Anyway, I ended up trading my Dad the 25, for an Ar-7 he bought and HATED, after he kept tearing the scope off the 25 to shoot woodchucks and muskrats from his tractor when I was in college...(he was farsighted and said you DIDN'T need no stupid SCOPE to hit anything...) and it is now behind my Moms bedroom door. Shes 82, lives alone, and says she "likes to have a gun around the house, and her and dad used to go out back and shoot cans with it all the time...":cool: I wipe it down when i go home to visit, and notice she keeps the clip LOADED on her dresser...

    But the 16ga is behind the door in the room I'm in right now, my son's old room, because he inherited it after Dad died. I made a deal with my brother that he can have the 25,when the time comes, because he says "All he has is his shotgun, and it would be nice to have Dad's .22 around the house... :cool: )

    That old 16 is PERFECT, sweet 5 1/2 pounds, you can carry it all day,,,when my brother and I were allowed to "borrow" it, we used to BOTH say, 'Yeah, we gotta learn to handle the RECOIL" when that old recoil operated 16 kicks like a heavy FEATHER even with deer slugs.... :cool: I kinda hope my son forgets about it when he gets out of college and gets a place of his own... :)

    And while in a fit of stupidity when the kids were small I sold the 220. my wife found one in a gunshop one year JUST like it and surprised me one Xmas...she listens to me bitch SOMETIMES... :)

    But MY "one gun" is a Winchester takedown '97 that I inherited from my wife's Grandpa when he died, all of us that used to hunt with him in PA got to pick one gun, and I let all my bro-in-laws take the rifles (his ,30-40 Krag carbine with a sidemount that was his deer rifle, and the Ex-military Savage .300 Savage, and the .222 Remignton, and the old WInchester .22. ) It WAS a 26" Cyl bore, Made in 1912, HE bought it used in 1920, and saved his pennies to send it off to have a polychoke installed during the Depression, and said "You know, it hasn't REALLTY shot straight since!" I had another shotgun at a smith having some modifications done to turn it into a "Three gun" shotgun during my IPSC days, and had him tighten it and saw it to 18 1/2" and mount a WIDE brass bead on it to get rid of the polychoke, and it was just my occasional "play" (like betting on the "old trick" that I could get at least 5 empty cses IN THE AIR before the first one hit the ground, LOVE that "no disconnector... :) )gun and "home defense" gun UNTIL sometime later I put some slugs down it, and WOW, it will keep them in a pie-plate at 50 rapid fire all day long!

    I've killed more deer with that gun since 1992 than I have with ANY other gun! You will see references to the tRusty '97 all around the board, the shotgun is WELL USED but USED WELL and the "patina" adds a little character. With another job I traveled alot,( and ws ALLOWED firearms in THEIR company cars... :mad: )and met some board members who after seeing it "voted" that I was NOT allowed to refinish it!

    The darn thing will outlast ME...

    SO even though in my life I HAVE voted for a FEW (VERY few...)Democrats in my life, LOCALLY...

    EVERY time I'm in the booth I remember my Dad, and MANY times I've UNAPOLOGETICALLY voted "Straight Republican..."
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2006
  6. The first vote I ever cast was for Ronald Reagan as governor of California! Like you, the only Demcrate I ever voted for was in a local election, and that only because he was a Republican too lazy (or too cagy in a county with largely Democratic registration!) to change his party affiliation from Democrat! I'm dating myself, but the first election I remember being emotionally involved in (though I was much too young to vote) was the 1960 contest between Kennedy and Nixon. When Kennedy won (by counting the Cook County Illinois Democratic votes twice, and the "voters" with tombstones over their heads three times ;) ) I thought my Dad was gonna have a heart attack! I've often wondered how history might have been changed had Nixon won in 1960, of if Kennedy had not been assassinated in 1963 and Johnson elevated to the presidency. Maybe Viet Nam would never have happened, or if it had, Nixon would have simply nuked the bastards! :D
  7. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Yeah I remember my Dad all worked up over the Kennedy election even LONG after he ws gone...I don't remember the actual election though, I would have been 2...

    But I ALSO remember my Dad getting all worked up over the 'Catholic" thing...We ARE Catholics, but my Dad would get worked up over "stupid Catholics" too, anybody that would vote for a Democrat JUST because he was Catholic shouldn't be allowed to vote OR be a Catholic in his eyes... :)
  8. Yeah, I am too, Polish, or at least that faith is as close as I come to any formalized belief system. It's been so long since I attended Mass that the church would probably fall down were I to go! It is interesting though, to note how the American political attitude has changed over the years in regard to issues like that. The religion of the candidates doesn't seem to enter the picture at all any longer, which is generally a good thing, I think. In the last election it was interesting to note that neither Kerry's Catholic beliefs nor Lieberman's Judaic background were even issues. Maybe the body politic has begun to grow up a bit.