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High standard pistols

36K views 57 replies 28 participants last post by  Fatstrat 
#1 ·
Hi- I am in the research phase of the gun buying process. I read on this forum that the high standard 22s can't be beat. I think someone compared them to a Ferrari (one of which passed me today at over 100 mph). I was at the gun shop today and the guy had at least 4 HS pistols, ranging from 550-900. He said the HS are no longer made, true? I found a high standard website

http://www.highstandard.com/weapons-a-products/weapons.html#22

These pistols look similar to what I saw at the shop.

He also showed me a couple of Ruger MKIII. I know the Ruger are well liked here too. Did not see a Buckmark, will keep an eye out for one.

Are the new HS 22 being made to the same exacting QC standards as the older ones? I want to get a gun that will have minimal issues as I'm trying to train someone new to guns and I don't want her to get frustrated. I don't mind spending the $ on a high end gun. I was also considering the S&W 41, which I have shot before and love.

My requirements are simple, reliability, safety, longevity and ability to put a holographic site on. Oh, I don't care for fiber optic sites. The shop owner showed me a nice ruger but it had fiber optic front sight.

Thanks for your advice.
 
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#3 ·
I don't know much about these guns, but here is the quote for reference...

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=101824&page=2

Chevy = Ruger...always need improvement & tweaking

Ford = Beretta Neos...same as above, but with more style

Volvo = Browning...solid all the way

Ferrari = High Standard of Connecticut...the ONLY U.S. pistol mfr to ever win Olympic Gold. They're the best we had...
Almost any HS pistol will eat all three of the above any day of the week. They are freakishly precise
Even rusty ones...lol
 
#4 ·
Probably my fave HS is the 4.5" Sport King.....
but all you mention will be a good choice to start.
Personally I would start with a Ruger Mark III or
the Ruger 22/45
And my UTMOST sound advice......if you want her to
enjoy it as much as possible, don't buy ANY until you take her
and let her hold all of the ones you are considering......
go from there.
 
#5 · (Edited)
The original HS did not have feed ramps, they relied on the magazine lips to properly guide the round into the chamber. This can cause many misfeeds and jams. And good luck finding good magazines for the vintage HS pistols. Other than that, they do shoot great once the round is loaded.

If this is your first .22, I would suggest a Ruger MKIII Hunter with the 6 7/8" barrel. They feed well and are very reliable as well as being very accurate.

 
#7 · (Edited)
Boy, a bit of miss information here. So here goes:

The High Standards of Connecticut manufacture (always engraved on the gun somewhere as East Hartford or Hamden) is a competition gun. It has a suburb trigger and barrel for that purpose. It indeed can be finicky about feeding ammo if the lips of the magazine are not adjusted just so. It is probably a poor choice for a first pistol for a new shooter. Frustration with the gun is a real killer of enthusiasm for going shooting.

The Houston Texas HIgh Standard Co. is making a accurate clone of the Connecticut guns. So accurate that the new parts interchange with the old parts with minimal fitting required, if at all. The current guns have good magazines with hardened feed lips that keep their tune. The open market new magazine as sold by Triple K do not have those hardened lips and have the reputation of loosing their tune easily leading to jams (but not always). The new mags for TX Hi Std fit the old guns and work perfectly in them but some MAY require a final tune of the lips to get perfect operation. The TX company owns the Hi Std name and they have been making these guns since the late 1990's. Their first attempts looked great but many had feeding ammo problems due to quality problems with the frame. Some were fine, others really need a frame replacement. The latest version with raw stainless steel finished frames are excellent guns. They are as accurate as the originals and the fit and finish matches the originals. The early blued frame TX guns are a gamble for feeding ammo correctly and I do not recommend them unless the pricing is super great and you want to gamble...not the thing for a new shooter.

Probably the most reliable 22 pistol you can buy would be the all metal Ruger MK series guns. The target models are plenty accurate enough and some people even use them as competition guns until they get significantly better in competition. They can use almost any ammo you come across (the Hi Std's can shoot only Standard Velocity ammo if you wish for them to last).

But for a new or woman shooter the weight of the gun is a consideration. You want it to be massive enough to steady the gun when aiming but not so heavy as to quickly tire the shooter. I think the ideal gun in this case at this time is the 5 1/2 inch barrel Ruger MKIII. A second choice (and I really don't like plastic guns) is the same gun with a plastic frame if the weight of the all metal gun is too taxing for the new shooter. The weight savings is 10 ounces with the plastic gun.That would be:

First choice....MKIII512 or the stainless version KMKIII512 (42 ounces)
Second choice....P512MKIII or P512MKIIIRP (32 ounces)

The S&W Model 41 is another competition gun. While not as finicky as a Hi Std they are not a good choice for a first gun, in my opinion. They are hard to find new or used and expensive. As with the vintage Hi Std's the used gun's pricing is driven by collectors.

There are many excellent competition style and target guns out there to choose from but such guns make poor choices for a new shooter. The increased accuracy potential in them will not be realized by a new shooter until much practice if at all. A rugged well made reliable gun like the Ruger MK series guns is the way to go, in my opinion. As the Ruger shooter progresses in shooting ability, the Ruger can be modified (trigger parts, sights, etc) with ease as they are well supported with after-market parts.

Just to reference where I am coming from, I have many 22 target guns and base this opinion on decades of non-competiton target shooting with them, including all the guns mentioned above and more. I have introduced several new shooters to shooting with good success.

LDBennett
 
#8 ·
I've never shot one of the auto pistols but I have owned two of the 9 shot 22 revolvers.I sold the first one and I regreted it I'll never sell the other one.The first was a model-107 sentinal and the second one I still have is a model called the Double-Nine,it's a cowboy western style type in excellent condition.Really fun revolvers!
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thank you all! I brought her to a local gun store and she leaned toward a Browning Buck Mark because of the finger groves on the grip. She felt it fit her best. Didn't see any MKIII there, but there are plenty of shops to go to that have a bigger stock.

The guy also showed us a Sig Mosquito, she liked that one too, but that is not much of a target gun. I think it would be better for her to play with a target gun, then when she is ready to move up, we can go to a 9mm or a 38.

I will steer clear of the high standards and S&W Model 41 (even though I love the idea of having one).

So if it comes down to the Buck Mark and the MKIII, about equal in quality build and performance? Are both easily upgraded to holographic sights? How about trigger difference, which is better?

Again, thank you all for your feedback. I will have to start price shopping soon.

Eddie
 
#12 ·
22 LR Target Pistols

Ruger- The 5 1/2" bull barrels front sight will need a drop of locktite in the screw hole. The rear sight is spring loaded. The ratchet type adjustment piece will wear over time and need replacing, to keep it from moving to the right. Old High Standards target pistol, great guns. The S&W M41 even better. A barrel that has the sights affixed are a plus. No need to sight in after cleaning, like some High Standards that have a frame mounted rear sight. Adjustable target sights are a must, with a good 2 to 3 pound trigger.
 
#13 ·
The Buckmarks are excellent guns but I think the Ruger is a bit more rugged and maybe a tad more relaible. The Buckmark has an aluminum frame were as the Ruger MKIII has an all steel frame. That makes the Buckmark a bit lighter. There are many target buckmarks in Bullseye competition; they are that good of a shooter. I like mine.

The little guns like the Mosquitos are toys, in my opinion. They shoot OK but a real target gun is the way to go. You can grow into a target pistol instead of out of it like with the Mosquito and like guns.

Be sure to get a target version of either the Ruger or the Buckmark. They are a few dollars more but have heavy barrel that can increase their accuracy over the entry level guns. They also have sight made for target shooting. You are looking at about $500 or more. Any of the cheaper guns are compromises. Be sure also to get target sights, not any of the glow sights. Later you can add a Red Dot sight.

The sights that some manufactures call holographic are not real holographic sights like the military uses. Those real holographic sighs cost upward of $500. They use a laser and a holographic "negative" to project a image in front of the shooter and seen by looking through the tube. Red Dots use a LED to reflect off the back of a coated front 1x lens element. They appear to be a dot floating in space that you just put over your target. Because of their design your unsteadiness of hold on the gun is amplified so you can see it and work to make it better.

LDBennett
 
#14 ·
I think the MKIII is going to be the gun for us....as long as it fits her hand. I like the fact that there is an upgrade to the stock trigger out there, which I can put in down the road. Iron sights are a must, I don't care for the red/green stuff. The local big gun shop has the MKIII target for $400 we will have to pay them a visit shortly.
 
#16 ·
You can't go wrong with a Ruger. I've got two of them, one I bought in 1971 and it has never failed to fire and it has had 1000s of rounds put through it. I miss the days of .49 cents for a box 50 LR and buying a brick of 500 would get you an additonal box of 50 free.
 
#17 ·
There are several .22 automatics I welcome to my collection.

Colt Woodsman
Browning
Ruger
High Standard (Love to have a collection of these)
S&W model 41

I do like the 6-7" barrel length over the shorter ones.

Ruger is super reliable and probably the one I'd look at as a lifetime gun for carrying in the wilds.
 
#21 ·
>>The original HS did not have feed ramps, they relied on the magazine lips to properly guide the round into the chamber. This can cause many misfeeds and jams.<<

Which is why I got rid of mine. Life's too short. ;)
 
#23 ·
RUT:

Sorry, but you cheated yourself out a fantastic 22LR target pistol. Yes, they can have their problems. And 2/3 of all the Hi Std ever made do not have a feed ramps. But there are solutions.

The magazines have to be either originals (there are cryptic clues because most are not marked as made by Hi Std) or magazines made by Houston Texas High Standard made new in the last few years. The lips are hardened and once set rarely if ever need to be re-adjusted. This is not true if you buy gun show Triple K magazines as their lips are soft, often times need frequent re-adjustment, and with extensive adjustment the lips can crack. The TX mags come pre-adjusted for CCI Standard Velocity ammo which is the least expensive accurate reliable Standard Velocity ammo you can buy.

These guns if abused crack frames...so don't abuse them. Use Std Vel ammo and keep a fresh recoil spring in the slide. Use only a 5.5 lb recoil spring either from TX Hi Std, Brownells, Gordon Elliot, or Wolff.

Do all this and these are excellent accurate reliable guns.

LDBennett
 
#25 ·
So do any of you out there Know if high standard made the model G E with a octagon barrel ? I ran across one that is in great shape but I have looked at 4 different Books I have on High Standards and no mention of any being made with Octagon Barrels . Sure would like to know if its orignal befor i spend that kind of money for it. I like High Standards and have 7 of them but not a model GE made in 49 or 50 I think.
 
#26 · (Edited)
If you do get a High Standard I recommend you evaluate and replace the recoil spring if needed. You can do it yourself or send it along to someone like Jim Barta and have a pro do it. (Mine was in need of changing @4.5lbs and Jim swapped in a new Wolfe spring + also checked out the firing pin and extractor).

My Supermatic shoots like a dream with the new progressive spring and after I adjusted the magazines to feed properly. Original one worked fine, it was the two aftermarket ones that I had to tweak. (I only run standard velocity ammo have had zero problems running the pistol since making the mag tweaks)

I also recommend checking out a barrel from Randy at CPC -- especially if you want to mount an optic.

It was already an exceptional shooter. With a CPC barrel my HS is scary accurate now.

Good luck!

One more thing about HS that's pretty cool: Switching barrels is done with literally the press of a button in under a minute. So you can get a lot of versatility if you need it. Make it a lighter rig for a beginner: pop in an LSP Aluma-Lite, want to go back to iron sights? Sure, drop back in the factory barrel... Want a crazy 7.5" barrel with a built in compensator? Drop in a Volquartsen just as easy.
 
#57 ·
If you do get a High Standard I recommend you evaluate and replace the recoil spring if needed. You can do it yourself or send it along to someone like Jim Barta and have a pro do it. (Mine was in need of changing @4.5lbs and Jim swapped in a new Wolfe spring + also checked out the firing pin and extractor).

My Supermatic shoots like a dream with the new progressive spring and after I adjusted the magazines to feed properly. Original one worked fine, it was the two aftermarket ones that I had to tweak. (I only run standard velocity ammo have had zero problems running the pistol since making the mag tweaks)

I also recommend checking out a barrel from Randy at CPC -- especially if you want to mount an optic.

It was already an exceptional shooter. With a CPC barrel my HS is scary accurate now.

Good luck!

One more thing about HS that's pretty cool: Switching barrels is done with literally the press of a button in under a minute. So you can get a lot of versatility if you need it. Make it a lighter rig for a beginner: pop in an LSP Aluma-Lite, want to go back to iron sights? Sure, drop back in the factory barrel... Want a crazy 7.5" barrel with a built in compensator? Drop in a Volquartsen just as easy.
One thing I've always preached is that if you buy an older gun (20+ years),
just go ahead and replace the important springs...they're inexpensive,
and there's really no telling how the previous owner stored or abused it.
If it has a Buffer (1022 or Marlin 60/795/70, etc), replace that too.
 
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