Himmler Presentation Pistol

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Longlaker, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Longlaker

    Longlaker New Member

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    Can anyone give me an approximate value for this pistol?

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  2. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm on a budget so I personally would not give more the 200,000 for it.:)
  3. Juker

    Juker New Member

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    Trying to find that "long low whistle while drooling" emoticon...
  4. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I have seen several Nazi-era presentation pistols, and pictures of many more.

    I know I will catch flak, but IMHO, that gun is a fake. Oh, it is a genuine Walther PP, presumably of the 1935-1945 timeframe, and the engraving is extensive and well done. But every presentation pistol I have seen had the recipient's name and usually some indication of the reason for the presenation plus slogans, etc. engraved into the gun. A plain engraved gun, even one with possibly genuine SS grips with the name of the late very much unlamented Reichsf├╝hrer-SS on a plate on the grips just doesn't "work" for me. It could be a presentation to someone else, but I think it is more likely post-war engraving work with fake SS grips added later (I doubt any German in the post-war era would have dared to make those grips - the penalites were too great).

    So, a fake? Yes, I believe so, as far as the Himmler connection goes, and I believe the grips are fake as well. Otherwise, it is a nice pistol and a fine example of German "oak leaf" engraving.

    Value? Whatever someone will give for it.

    Jim
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2011
  5. Longlaker

    Longlaker New Member

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    It's not a fake it's been in my family since my Dad returned from WWII. He was a highly decorated Platoon Leader in the 88th Blue Devils Recon Troop in Italy. In fact he is credited as the first Allied Soldier to enter Rome in it's liberation. He recieved a Silve Star Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He captured it on a raid behind German Lines. His troop was sent in to kill a high ranking German General and when they arrived the Germand had fled, but the coffee was still warm, He found the pistol under a pillow in the Master Bedroom.
  6. jjmitchell60

    jjmitchell60 Active Member

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    Personally I would contact Walther and see if they can shed any light on it. As stated, it could be fake and the people at Walther can tell you if any were engraved for Himmler. IF collectable, then there are 1000 fakes out there for 1 real collectable. A pistol like that if not a fake would be dang near if not priceless.
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Like I said, I will catch flak, and no one can argue with the tales of a dead man, and a hero to boot. Stories are nice, but my opinion of the pistol is unchanged.

    Jim
  8. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

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    Longlaker, I sincerely hope for your sake it is exactly what you say it is. As does everyone here I imagine. We would be the first to congratulate you. There are just so many very good fakes, it takes a real expert to say for sure and some documented provenance. Best of luck!
  9. Longlaker

    Longlaker New Member

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    Thanks Permafrrost. Can you recommend some "real experts" I could contact.
  10. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    Unfortunately, no expert can prove the authenticity of this pistol. What is needed is provenance, actual proof of the origins of this pistol. Jim K is right, there are many fake presentation pistols, but very few come with incontrovertible documentation. In the absence of such proof, one cannot set a true value on this pistol, though as a conversation piece, it may very well bring a few thousand dollars.
  11. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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  12. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Perhaps SSMN can tell us what the plate on that pistol says, as I can't read it.

    Another Himmler, maybe.

    Jim
  13. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    If your dad broght it back from Germany, there should be "capture papers" noting the serial number of the gun.
  14. Danny

    Danny Member

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    I think I am on Jim's side for once. The give away on the pistol is the plate with Himmler's signature. It seems to be made of brass. Looking at the bottom you can see the green erosion starting to work on it.
    Most of Himmler's pistols, that were note fakes, had his name engraved on the pistol, not the grips. Just my 2 cents fellows. I will contact Dieter Marschall & get his thoughts.
    Kindest Regards
    Danny
  15. Longlaker

    Longlaker New Member

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    Ther are no capture papers. My Dad would tell the story that when General Wolfe was captured in Italy, General Mark Clarke instisted that his pistol be delivered to him. That put a real chill on the troops reporting spoils of war.
  16. Infidel

    Infidel New Member

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    I blew up the pic and it looks like H. Himmler as well. Same gun AFAIK.
  17. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    While I also doubt its authenticity, they are not the same gun. The gun in the presentation case has the Walther banner on the L/H side, but I can't see it on the gun in this thread. The picture on this thread is not as sharp, but it still should be visible. But the big differences are the engraving. On the hump at the backstrap the oak leaves are pointing in different directions. Below the front sight, there are oak leaves on this one, but not on the other one.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  18. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mean to imply they were the same specific gun, only that the motif was identical. An obvious difference is the crack in grip of the cased one. If authentic, the Himmler inlays likely identify him as the presenter, and not his personal guns.
  19. Road America

    Road America Member

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    Longlaker, do you know anymore about who the German general was? If he was an army general it wouldn't be so likely for him to have anything with Himmler's name on it, but if he was SS it would seem possible. The idea that it was a presentation by Himmler is a good one. It certainly wasn't Himmler's personal gun, he wasn't in Italy.
    This is a very interesting gun, worth doing more research!
  20. Longlaker

    Longlaker New Member

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    They are definitely different, mine is a PP while the gun in the case is a PPK.
    Regarding the General they were sent in to kill, my father believed it was Wolfe although his troop was not told this specifically and here is where the controversy comes in, when Wolfe eventually surrendered he was carrying an Italian Barretta, although the West Point Museum claims to have Wolfes pistol. A very similar, but not as nice presentation pistol.
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