Home Defense for New Shooter

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by brewcityc, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Oct 18, 2003
    Central Texas
  2. clmanges

    clmanges New Member

    Feb 2, 2007
    NE Ohio
    You're halfway there, Stash. Now, to get the rest of the way there, substitute an ounce and a quarter of talcum powder. Does that still have the same energy? It's still an ounce and a quarter, isn't it?

  3. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Oct 18, 2003
    Central Texas
    Grasshopper, you are not listening!
    If I shoved a 12 gauge, up against your belly, with an ounce and a quarter of talcum powder, say, 2 " below your navel, you would never make it to the hospital,with a pulse!
    You are correct, that in this extreme case, there would be extreme velocity loss, at even a short distance from the muzzle, due to projectile density.
    A 'contact wound' with such a load, would not be survivable, given good aplication, of even such a round.
    Same internal balliastics, different, out of the barrel, but the 'worst case' scenario, were I on the receiving end, IMHO!
    This is an esoteic digression, from the topic, but having dealt with hundreds of 'gunshot wound victims', I feel qualified to reply.
    Sure, you can lower the mass, increase the loss of velocity, even at 15 feet, to a huge change in energy; obviate that factor, by making it a 'contact wound' shooting, and you are still a 'dead player'.
    My original post is valid; ask the survivors!
  4. martbo

    martbo New Member

    Mar 12, 2007
    Stash, my comments weren't a question. I was trying to make a statement and didn't write as well as it sounded in my head. But, you made the statement far better than I could. THANKS.
  5. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Oct 18, 2003
    Central Texas
    Matrbo, Lil Bro, I did not take it for a question; My point, exactly, was, that once I control your mind, I own your A**!
    I'm not real big, but years ago, when I healed some quicker, I closed a lot of bars with fights in which I spotted somebody else a hundred pounds, or more, and walked away.
    In such a circumstance, I'll talk about your Momma, your sister, your girlfriend, wife, or both, just to get you really 'riled up', at which point you lose perspective, from anger> adrenaline, and get real 'Stoopid'!
    The same point goes for the laser, but it is a far better, less destructive approach, hopefully saving the expense of ammo, and defense, later.
    I took your suggestion a bit further, true enough, but it was your idea, and a damned fine one!
    If your 'Goblin' has an ounce of sense, a shotgun, and a laser dot, ought to spell 'Lights out' for him, at which point, he can retreat, or die; the choice is his, but, at least, you have given him every opportunity to live!
    And yourself, a very reasonable excuse for shooting, should it ever come to court!
  6. bdfinst

    bdfinst New Member

    Dec 17, 2006
    Clmanges is right. I've spent years on various firearms forums listening to gun urban legends. Finally theboxotruth.com came along to be the mythbusters of guns. Thank God.

    Yes, if you hold a 12 guage full of sand against someone's belly and pull the trigger, he won't feel very well in the morning (the same would be true if you were firing blanks), but the odds of that shot are pretty slim. How do you keep him from gaining control of the muzzle?

    While 1.5 oz of #7 has the same mass as 1.5 oz of 00 buck, the energy of the #7 drops off significantly after leaving the barrel. Assuming the same amount of powder and same total shot weight, the #7 and the 00 will have the same muzzle velocity, however, each #7 pellet weighs significantly less than a 00 pellet. The formula for kenetic energy is Energy = 1/2 Mass x Velocity squared. So, energy drops in proportion to the mass.
    Common sense bears this out as well. You would never think of using a 115 grain load of snake shot for personal defence, while a 115gr 9mm is perfectly acceptable. You also wouldn't use #7 bird shot for deer hunting because it doesn't penetrate far enough to reach the vitals in a large animal (i.e. man).

    Never use a load for personal defense that is less effective that a deer load.

    To those who think you can be sloppy with aiming a shotgun, I'd advise you to go pattern your gun at defensive ranges. You might be surprised.

    For years, I've heard about the over penetration issue with rifle rounds. According to the testing done at BOT, a 45 ACP will penetrate through 12 sheets of sheetrock. That's the equivalent of 6 walls. Since it appears that handgun ammo is just as effective at penetrating all the way through my house as a rifle and based on the testing on shotguns at BOT, I'm switching from my Kahr 40 to a shotgun for the bedroom. I'd encourage everyone to read the following tests before making a decision on home defense.


  7. gunlearner

    gunlearner New Member

    Feb 14, 2007
    really i think a 16 or a 410 would do the trick
    first the 12 gage is to big for her get her started with a 410 and work you way up
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  8. bdfinst

    bdfinst New Member

    Dec 17, 2006
    16 is nice. 12 isn't bad if you get an auto. I would think that 410 might not hold enough shot.
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