Home Defense Weapon

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

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    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (12/26/02 12:33:55 pm)
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    Hello,
    I am considering the purchase of a firearm for home defense only. I am totally ignorant about firearms. My wife is 100% against guns period. I want to have protection around just in case a situation presents itself. I am looking at the Mossberg 500 Persuader and Stoeger Coach shotguns, so far. I feel a handgun maybe too cost prohibitive, permits, etc., although it would be easier to hide form the kids than a shotgun.
    I need some objective advice. Also, any advice on how to persuade my wife to accept having a firearm in the house. (BTW, my kids are 16 yrs old and a 12 yrs old.) Thanks!
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1237
    (12/26/02 2:12:55 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Slimslam -

    First off, welcome to The Firearms Forum. Glad to have you aboard. Please feel free to visit our other topic areas as well. There is a wealth of information here that is incomparable elsewhere on the internet.

    To answer part of your question, I would recommend reading the following two articles:

    pub145.ezboard.com/fthefi...D=27.topic

    pub145.ezboard.com/fthefi...D=35.topic

    More discussion would be forthcoming, and welcome, if you feel your questions are not answered in the above two topics.

    As for the other part of your question, "advice on how to persuade my wife to accept having a firearm in the house", can you elaborate on any specific reasons why your wife is "100% against guns period"? If we had some specific concerns she has, we would be better able to provide information regarding those concerns.

    I am not saying that we would/could persuade her to change her mind. However, perhaps some of the "information" she is currently basing her bias on is incorrect and we could help correct it by providing accurate and correct information upon which to make an informed decision.








    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 85
    (12/26/02 3:54:43 pm)
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    Number one, numero uno, before you make another move.

    Absolutely with out any hesitation forget that "hide it from the kids" plan.

    It's a recipe for disaster and heart ache.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (12/26/02 4:47:10 pm)
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    ruffitt...
    Thanks for the reply and insight. As far as my wife is concerned, her primary objection is the fact we have kids in the house and the potential of them getting access to a gun. I know she is anti-gun as a result of the media and gun control advocate positions.
    Honestly, I haven't discussed this with her yet because I know she is closed-minded and has pre-conceived notions of guns being a major cause of violence. Unfortunately, it is a classic situation of needing "third-party" references to convince her. I've almost taken the position of just keeping it "all a secret" to make my life simpler. Any advice or references would be appreciated. Thanks
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (12/26/02 4:49:25 pm)
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    JackRyann,
    I understand where you are coming from...I need help on "selling" the need to have a firearm in the home, 'cuz I haven't figured out how to effectively accomplish this. Thanks
    SS

    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (12/26/02 4:53:22 pm)
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    Get a handgun, and get a handgun safe to keep it in, right next to your bed. There are some good ones on the market today that are constructed so that you can quickly get into them and will keep the kids out.



    Edited by: MTaylor at: 12/26/02 4:54:15 pm

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (12/26/02 4:56:31 pm)
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    MTaylor,
    I am still considering a handgun. I guess I have a few family issues to clear up first. Thanks for the reply and info.
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1240
    (12/27/02 8:51:16 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    O.K.-

    Now we have some where to begin. Does she discriminate between types of guns? That is, does she believe ALL guns are equally bad, or are revolvers/pistols more "dangerous" than long guns (rifles/shotguns)? Which ever is the case, it appears that a bit of fact finding and proper education is in order.

    This is by no means going to be an immediate "cure all" for your situation. However, possibly with the "right" information you will be able to convince your wife that things are not as she perceives them. It will take you some time to research and assimilate the information you will need, but I (and I am sure other forum members) will try our utmost to assist you.

    First off lets dispel some of the myths concerning firearms. Go to:www.2asisters.org/education/ninemyths.htm#* Myth #1

    After you finish absorbing (and saving) the information on the myths, go to: www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html and read to your hearts content.

    Also go to: home.attbi.com/%7Eguys/GunFacts.pdf. This ius a PDF file but you can read it on-line. Of particular interest would be the FACTS stated on page 13. (It would help you read the article if you were to increase the size of the print by using the reading glass symbol with the + sign in it to increase the type size to something more appealing to the eye..

    We are at the beginning of a long journey here, but I am willing to travel the road with you if you need help along the way.

    Regards







    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3515
    (12/27/02 8:56:56 am)
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    Listen to Ruffitt - he has a lot of good advice and connections to references. You might consider him our resident legal advisor/social psychologist.

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (12/27/02 11:56:10 am)
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    ruffitt,
    Wow...thanks for the very useful information. This should be very helpful to educate others with the "anti-gun" mindset. I'm absorbing away.....I'm sure I'll have questions later. Thanks!!!
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (12/27/02 11:57:16 am)
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    Bob in St Louis,
    Yup, so far I am listening...and reading!! Thanks!
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1244
    (12/27/02 7:14:32 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Slimslam -

    If, or when, you have any questions don't hesitate to ask. Someone here (it won't always be me) will gladly assist you and lead you in the right direction.

    Bob In St Louis -thanks for the acolades, but you give me way to much credit.







    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5243
    (12/27/02 7:56:39 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    SlimSlam - I truly wish you luck with your wife in this regards.

    It's not easy but it can be done. Took me quite a few years but now my mother has her own .22lr rifle and enjoys going out to the range (on warm days) and shooting.

    However, from a woman's perspective my best advice is don't try to sneak it past her - she finds out or finds the gun and man oh man you are going to be in trouble.

    Good to meet you by the way!


    noital2
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (12/27/02 10:04:15 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Wear the gun while at home, no need for permit
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    except maybe in NJ or NYC. If wearing it, it's at hand, no worries about kids or burglars getting it. when go to sleep, slip it between mattress and box spring, under your head, so to speak.

    For sure, get a .22 first. I recommend a used, $150, 4" barreled, Sport-Target Browning Buckmark. SOG (in the Shotgun News paper) has very nice, new in the box, Star 9mm BM's, for $190 dealer cost. $20 more for an FFL guy to order it for you, $10 shipping, $10 sales tax, and it includes a spare mag, which is about a $30 value. Star is out of business, but parts and mags can still be had. The BM is steel framed, 30 ozs, 7.2" long, SA, 7 rd mag. They will run out of them someday soon, so get one now.

    After you've run about 3000 rds thru the .22,($50 at walmart) you can either sell it, or keep it to train others with. 9mm ball can be $90 for 1000 rds, delivered to your door, or you can get 100 rds of beautiful Winchester 9mm ball, for $12 at Walmart. The defensive load of choice is CorBon's 90 gr plusP jhp, at 1500 fps in the Star. That's 450 ft lbs, but still very controlable. You will probably have to pay a gunsmith $30 to smooth up your feed ramp, tho, before these jhp's will be reliable in your Star.

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1247
    (12/28/02 6:29:43 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Noital2 -

    Going to have to respectfully disagree with part of your post Noital2.

    A handgun in the hands of an "experienced" individual may be desirable; however in the hands of one "totally ignorant about firearms", I doubt if you will find any one to disagree that a shotgun is the best weapon of choice. The way I am reading Slimslams' post, he is looking for a self defense weapon for "inside the home" use; not something to have/use outside the house, downtown or at the corner grocery store. If, after gaining experience and receiving required training/course attendance he feels the need for a concealed weapons permit, he should certainly pursue that course of action.

    I agree with your training methodology for obtaining beginners proficiency with a handgun; starting small and working up to the larger bore weapons, but will make no comment regarding the choice of weapons to attain proficiency. Selection of a weapon is an individual choice, and unless specifically asked for recommendations as to type, caliber, manufacturer etc., I generally do not offer recommendations. If a specific recommendation is requested I will offer my personal experiences, references, thoughts and recommendations.

    Regards






    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (12/29/02 8:45:57 am)
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    Thanks for the comments noital2. I'm learning something from all the replies to my original post.
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (12/29/02 8:50:28 am)
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    I've come across another helpful website to help educate my wife. It is www.a-human-right.com. Let me know what you think. I've just signed up for a one-day Basic Handgun Safety course at a local community college. Hey, it's a start....
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1248
    (12/29/02 9:57:33 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    Slimslam -

    Congratulations on signing up for the Basic Handgun Safety course. One can never have too much training or information in regards to Handgunsafety. One question though, have you told your wife that you are going to attend the course. If so, what was her response? (I ask this to get a "feel" of how receptive she may be to your idea. Not personally knowing either of you it is rather difficult to assess the correct/proper approach to helping you with your situation.). Along these lines, I do not wish to complete our interaction through either email or private messaging. I believe it would be in the best interest of you, your wife, and this Discussion Group in general to keep it going in an active thread for future reference if a similar situation presents itself.

    Another site you may want your wife to check out is: www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/33620

    It is an on line discussion forum composed primarily of women, with an occasional male joining in. Any questions, concerns or fears she may have can/will be quickly responded to by the members there.

    There are other sites around that I will pass on to you as we get further along and deeper into this. I do not want to overload you or your wife with information to the extent you do not research it.

    Regards








    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 9
    (12/29/02 11:16:45 am)
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    ruffitt,
    Wow, thanks for the support. No, I haven't told yet about signing up for the course, yet. I want to take the course to become better educated on gun safety, regulations, weapons, etc. to handle most of her objections. Right now, all I can do is recite the 2nd Amend. and give my subtle opinions regarding daily newspaper gun violence.

    I respect your advice and wishes not to exchange via private e-mail. I really enjoy this open forum for advice and education. If you or any member have any advice or ideas on how to "initiate" a general discussion of home defense with an "anti-gun" spouse, PLEASE reply early and often!! Getting the subject matter on the table is my biggest obstacle.

    Again, I sincerely appreciate TFF and its members help so far!!!
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1252
    (12/29/02 12:00:34 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Hey Slimslam, no problem with the support. Glad to help anyone with an earnest desire to improve their knowledge, use and safety of firearms.

    I take it from your last post that you do, on occasion, discuss (or at least mention) the use of firearms in todays society. This is good and offers you the opportunity to "open the door" to discussion with your wife. Now comes the question; does she engage you in conversation or does she "shut you off" at the mention of the topic.

    If she will discuss the topic with you, you have a "foot in the door" and can open it wider with some of the information that you are (hopefully) learning here. If she "shuts you off" it is more than likely due to lack of correct information regarding firearms. If it is a lack of correct information, prudent information can be provided but it will be a slow and tedious learning process to dispel all the "negative" information that has so long been regarded as "gospel".

    I an well understand her situation regarding firearms and having two young boys in the home. A lot of the concern probably rests with how comfortable she feels wit their maturity and how they conduct themselves. This is (as you know) a normal situation for not only mothers, but dads too. With proper and on-going education and/or information a lot of the "fears" of weapon ownership can be resolved. An added factor involved in the equation regarding firearms ownership in your home is your geographical location. Different sectors of the Country have different "feelings" regarding gun ownership. If you happen to live in an area that is pro-gun, this may assist you as there may be a plethora of resources to assist you "at hand". If, on the other hand, you reside in a section of the Country that is anti-gun, you have an up-hill (but not losing) battle on your hands.

    If you feel comfortable with it some time in the future, invite your wife to join our discussion group. We have a number of wonderful women that are members here, and there is at least one family here that has two wonderful young kids (both pre-teen). I am sure it would not take much to entice them to discuss things with your wife,either here on the forum or in private (email - private messaging).

    We have taken a couple of steps so far in your journey, but still have a long way to go. The "goal" is known, it is just that we do not know exactly which road we need to travel to get there. We also know that there will be many turns, detours and even some dead-ends, before your goal is reached, but I am sure we will get there eventually.








    wsmc667
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 107
    (12/29/02 2:38:52 pm)
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    howdy,

    i won't get too deep into this chat, but i would like to advise you to rent and shoot a gun of similar caliber before buying. i bought a 9mm for the home before i went to a range and shot both a 9mm and a .45acp. honestly, if i had done this prior, i would have picked the 45! it recoils less and has a quieter report! even though it sounds like a cannon, it's quite a handy round.

    so the next question is how to rent? a lot of bigger cities will have indoor shooting ranges. these will have rental guns. i found my local range using yahoo's yellow pages yp.yahoo.com and entering and searching on gun range. if you can't find this, talk to the local gun shops. build a rapport with them and maybe of the workers there will take you to a range and shoot one of their personal guns.

    anyhow... what i hope you're learning is that a lof of gun owners are just good folk and always willing to help out or share with another.

    chris in sandy eggo

    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (12/29/02 5:42:51 pm)
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    Hey Slimslam,

    How about you and the wife taking that course together? It sure has helped the SO (significant other) and I.


    Mark





    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (12/30/02 8:13:12 am)
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    wsmc667,
    Good advice. I will definitely do this. Thanks
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (12/30/02 8:32:53 am)
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    MTaylor,
    Interesting concept. We've got family friends who own guns with 2 young kids. I will be getting their help to educate my wife about home defense guns and kids. We are planning to go out to range for fun. I will encourage her to come with us.
    I'll probably take a class first; then work toward educating her to dispel the "myths"; then encourage her to take a basic safety course. Thanks for the idea!
    SS

    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 92
    (12/31/02 2:21:27 am)
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    SlimSlam, man I hate to really touch the "convinceing" thing.

    My own style would be not to try. I'd prolly go the route "there are things you like to do and there are things I like to do". I'd just go about my business sort of non judgmentaly and wait for her to get interested if ever.

    So people just aren't interested or just don't like guns. I wouldn't let it affect my marriage negatively.

    Beyond that, I would with out a doubt second the shotgun route for a first or only gun for home defense. There are many ways to make this gun safe when you are not in direct control of it. Many of them are not expensive.

    There are some very specif safety concerns with shot guns. They are not the kind of thing to alter an opinion to buy or not. Just things everyone who uses them need to be aware of.

    Not the most important or the most dangerous but something I learned at a trap club that prolly is the least known is that when a shot gun has a shell in the chamber IT IS STILL NOT SAFE WITH THE SAFETY ON. IF IT IS STRUCK SHARPLY ON THE STOCK IT WILL FIRE. I have done this with my 870. I'm talking about an action similar to setting it on the floor to lean against the wall. If it were to slip and drop that last foot or so it could go off even if the safety is on.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1265
    (12/31/02 12:32:15 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Slimslam -

    JackRyan was absolutely correct with his advice regarding attempting to hide the weapon:
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    Absolutely with out any hesitation forget that "hide it from the kids" plan.

    It's a recipe for disaster and heart ache.
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    Going this route will only cause disaster in the long run.

    He has also definitely hit the nail on the head with his comment regarding use of manual safeties on shotguns. The only ABSOLUTE when it comes to "safety" with ANY loaded weapon is that it is capable (and ready) to cause death, intentionally or unintentionally.

    On the other hand, I do not ascribe to his methodology:
    Quote:
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    My own style would be not to try. I'd prolly go the route "there are things you like to do and there are things I like to do". I'd just go about my business sort of non judgmentally and wait for her to get interested if ever.
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    concerning the solution of including your wife in defense of your home.

    You stated:
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    I am considering the purchase of a firearm for home defense only. I am totally ignorant about firearms.
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    and continued:

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    My wife is 100% against guns period
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    as well as

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    Also, any advice on how to persuade my wife to accept having a firearm in the house
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    With emphasis on the words "persuade" and "accept", you cannot exclude her from your firearm activities as it pertains owneship or home defense. It is imperative you educate yourself and her (of course, at HER own pace) and insure you both receive factual information and material concerning the proper and safe use of firearms, not only in defense of your home, but for the many activities for which they are used/possessed.



    For the record, I will inform you that I am not a firearms PROFESSIONAL in any sense of the word. I am simply a hunter and occasional shooter who enjoys these activities. My experience with firearms stems from 50+ years of "hands on" use of firearms, with 20 of these years as a member of the US Army. My ownership of firearms dates back to 1961 when I bought my first deer rifle (a sporterized 30-06 Mauser98 from a Sears store in San Francisco, California for $49.00). While I may not have attained the formal degree of education many of our members have reached, I simply possess a high degree of "common sense" which, in my view will serve just as well as advanced education in the safe handling and use of a firearm.

    Regards

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (1/1/03 11:33:12 am)
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    Slimslam, if I may, I would like to add some comments from a woman's point of view. First of all, DO NOT keep the whole situation from her. She will eventually find the gun, through spring cleaning or whatever, and be furious that you went behind her back. Second, I agree with the advice to take her to the firearm education classes and to the firing range. Part of her fear of guns should be allieviated when she learns more about them and has had a chance to handle them. Finally, you say that she is concerned for the children. You said your kids are 16 and 12; at this age, they should be included in the education and safety courses. My son got his first gun, a shotgun, at age 14. He took a hunter education course, as is required by our state to get a hunting license. He was not allowed to use the gun solo until his father was satisfied that he was able to handle the gun properly and was responsible enough to be trusted with it. You don't mention younger children, but my opinion on them is that the gun should not be kept secret from them. Locked away, yes, but not kept secret. They should be shown the gun and allowed to touch it, to satisfy that insatiable curiosity that children have. Then you should explain that guns are VERY dangerous, that they must be treated with respect. You should explain that if they find a gun, they should not touch the gun, especially the trigger, and should tell an adult immediately. I was not brought up with guns myself, and was leery of them when I married a man with guns, but he gave me a gun for Christmas our first year, and taught me how to use it. I have not become an expert, but I know the basics of gun use and care for the guns that I own. And now that I am single again, I take comfort in knowing that I can defend myself and my children if the need arises.

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (1/2/03 8:16:41 am)
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    JR,
    You given me food for thought....I'm taking this all in...THANKS!
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (1/2/03 8:18:44 am)
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    ruffitt,
    I'm convinced. I will not keep this from my wife. TFF advice has been invaluable. Thank you.
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (1/2/03 8:22:06 am)
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    SouthernMoss,
    Thanks for your post. The support from TFF is appreciated. The wealth of experience and advice is invaluable. I should print these posts out as reference. THANKS!!
    SS

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (1/2/03 6:59:05 pm)
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    Slimslam, keep us posted on your progress, and good luck to you.

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (1/5/03 8:40:50 am)
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    SouthernMoss, ruffit, et al,
    Thanks for your insight and wishes. I'm still trying to decide between a handgun and a shotgun for home defense. There are pros & cons for having either.

    Yesterday, I visited a local (and very reputable) gun shop to purchase eye protection for my beginners handgun safety course. I threw out the question to the individual helping me: "What would you recommend as a basic weapon for home defense for a novice?"

    He stated a shotgun would be his first choice, however, in light of my wife's concerns (ie, 16 yr old and 12 yr old having easy access to it), he felt a revolver with the purchase of a quality handgun safe would possibly satisfy her concerns. He said the kids could not get into at all.

    He suggested a S & W .357/38S revolver over, let's say a 9mm with clip. He said for home defense, 3 rounds in the cylinder is all I need. He said most encounters entail 3 shots in 3 seconds. I guess I have to agree with the handgun from the standpoint of being able to lock it up AND have the ability to retrieve quickly from the safe.

    I understand that there is more paperwork involved with a handgun (along with additional costs, permits, etc.) What exactly am I facing in terms of costs with a properly registered handgun? I live in Michigan.

    Thank you TFF for helping me through this process.
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1290
    (1/5/03 9:08:17 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    SlimSlam -

    Costs are going to be rather negligible compared to the purchase of which ever weapon you choose. You will have to get a "Permit to Purchase" from your local Police Agency. If you are purchasing a pistol/revolver and live within the city limits, your permit will have to come from the Chief of Police of that city. If you live outside the city limits, you will have to obtain same permit from your County Sheriff Department. It should cost you between 5 - 10 dollars for the permit. After you receive your permit you have 10 days to make your purchase and bring the weapon to the same Department you received your permit from to get it "inspected". You will be given a wallet sized "inspection" card that you will have to have in your possession when ever you have the pistol/revolver in your possession. This "inspection" will cost you, again, between 5 - 10 dollars.

    DO NOT MISINTERPRET THE INSPECTION CARD FOR A CONCEALED CARRY CARD - THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, AND YOU CAN NOT CARRY YOUR PISTOL (OTHER THAN UNLOADED AND ENCASED TO A SHOOTING RANGE OR HUNTING SITE) ON YOUR PERSON WITHOUT A CONCEALED CARRY CARD!!!

    If you purchase a shotgun there are no permit or fees after your purchase.

    Now, a question to you - Where in Michigan do you live? I live in Sparta, which is just a bit North and West of Grand Rapids.

    Regards






    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (1/5/03 9:56:15 am)
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    ruffitt,
    Thanks for the insight with respect to permits, fees, etc. for Michigan. I live in the Livonia/Plymouth area in Wayne County, approximately 3 miles from the tragic incident involving the Pesce family.
    SS

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (1/5/03 10:50:30 am)
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    I just looked up the news stories on the Pesce family ... what a horrible, horrible crime!! Killing the adults was bad enough, but shooting three beautiful, innocent children in the back... it's beyond reprehensible, it's...it's... I'm stuttering with rage trying to find words bad enough to describe it! My heart goes out to you and your community as you try to deal with such a tragedy.

    Are any of your friends and neighbors also checking into home defense weapons in response to this crime? If so, perhaps you could use these people to help you explain to your wife why it is so important to you to have a weapon to protect your family.

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 17
    (1/5/03 11:09:51 am)
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    SouthernMoss,
    Thank you for your thoughts on this tragic incident. It has made quite an impact on our community. I am speechless from anger. The flags are still flown at half-mass at a local Italian-American Banquest Club.

    I have had discussions with co-workers about firearms for home defense. Some listen with nodded approval; others are already gun owners; and of course there are those who insist that all guns should be banned and destroyed (how realistic). I haven't seen my neighbors too much this winter except to wave hello from afar while we are snowblowing our respective driveways. I think I will make it a point to visit one the next time I'm out to initiate the discussion. Good idea!

    Thanks SouthernMoss for your thoughtful post and invaluable insight.
    SS



    SouthernMoss
    Member
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    (1/5/03 2:59:58 pm)
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    Snowblowing ... ah yes, I forget that you northerners are pretty much housebound this time of year. Here, it's 63 degrees F (at 2pm), and the camellias are blooming all over town. But I digress...



    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 18
    (1/5/03 6:22:52 pm)
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    OK, OK....so you're about 40 degrees warmer than us today. Nothin' like workin' out in the cold. The reward is comin' inside to a hot chocolate, or, a glass of the grape....
    digressingly yours,
    SS

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (1/5/03 6:42:36 pm)
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    That's ok. In six months, when it's 100 degrees and 100% humidity here, you can return the gloat.

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1295
    (1/6/03 11:31:51 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    O.K., so what part of the "South" does the "Moss" inhabit? You don't have to be specific as to location, but a general area would be nice to know. You already know where we live.







    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 793
    (1/6/03 12:00:26 pm)
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    What the heck, I'm going to jump in here.....

    Why on earth would you only put 3 rounds in the cylinder? If you're going to have a firearm... a loaded firearm.... in the house, why only load it with 3 rounds? That makes absolutely no sense to me. I would disregard that little tidbit of advice that the dealer gave you.

    My own personal feeling is that a shotgun is better suited for close-quarter defense. However, I understand your reason for leaning toward a handgun. Just keep in mind that if you discharge a handgun inside the house, there is a chance that the bullet can travel through the walls and strike your children. A shotgun blast will have much less chance of penetrating walls, but will still be very effective on an intruder.

    As for dealing with the wife, I feel your pain. My wife is not fond of guns. It's been a process, to say the least. First, I had to convince her to "allow" guns in the house. Once that is accomplished, it may take some time and persuasion for her to warm up to the idea. My wife no longer treats my firearms as ticking bombs. I still can't convince her to go shooting with me, but like I said, it's a process.

    My advice would be to take it slowly and gently. Don't start a marital problem with it, and don't sneak anything in. Be honest with her and be husbandly about it. If the conversation gets angry, let it go for the moment. Keep the lines of communication open, and accept the fact that it may take weeks or months to wear down her defenses. And most importantly, do not dismiss her concerns. Nothing can hurt your cause more than to treat her as if her feelings and fears are irrelevant.

    And as far as the kids are concerned, make sure they know you have it. I would even teach them how to use it. But keep it locked up where they cannot get to it without your supervision. If they are allowed to shoot it at the range, then it will satisfy their natural curiosity.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 19
    (1/6/03 1:30:25 pm)
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    SM,
    I dunno....it can get to 100 degrees with high humidity here too...but, I'll still gloat atch'ya....
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (1/6/03 1:40:03 pm)
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    1952Sniper,
    I pretty much did disregard that advice about the 3 shots. I am more curious as to why he suggested the .357/38S revolver. It is really beyond my budget, which is only $300-350. I prefer the shotgun too, however, I cannot have it "ready" in a house with two kids right now.

    Thanks for the suggestions regarding my wife's position. Patience is key. Believe it or not, I'm still trying to figure out how I am going to tell her I signed up for a Basic Handgun Safety course (1 day class). I know that sounds ridiculous, but it is the truth. She'll ask why don't I just take a fencing class (like my son has) instead of a "gun" class. This is gonna be an uphill struggle.

    Well, I do appreciate all these helpful posts!! ....thanks
    SS

    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 105
    (1/6/03 1:49:43 pm)
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    There are cheaper ways to make that revolver just as safe.
    For a lot less than the price of that safe you can buy the best padlock that was ever made.

    Open the cylinder and lock it over the top strap. Second choice is to put the lock on the trigger guard behind the trigger.

    Both these are standard means of making a revolver safe used and recomended to cops all over the country. They regularly use their hand cuffs when at home for this purpose.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--

    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 106
    (1/6/03 2:12:42 pm)
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    Don't abandon the shotgun idea. They are cheaper and more effective in a gun fight.

    They can be just as "ready" and just as safe unless you plan to carry the handgun on your person all the time. You might do that when ya go outside but I'll bet less than a month after purchase you won't be sitting around the tube or the computer, munching chips and yucking it up with yer buds and a have the 4 pounds of iron on yer hip.

    I recommend an auto loader. I prefer Remington but they all will pretty well serve the purpose of blowing holes in intruders.

    Before you gus jump on my case for the auto over a pump. Think about it. A novice or even worse a gun-a-phobe may be forced into the use of this weapon to defend their life.

    He can load this weapon in the DAYLIGHT, while he's calm and once a round is in the chamber it's P&P time, bad news for anyone on the other end. With a pump it's still going to require chambering a round and you've still got to operate the slide every time you attempt to save your own or someone you loves life. Possibly in the dark. Possibly while GETTING shot at. "QUICK! CRANK IN ANOTHER ONE! HURRY UP HE'S COMING! HE'S SHOOTING! DON'T SHORT JACK IT. GET IT CLOSED!

    All that's if the thing functions perfectly. If we go on to screw ups the list gets a lot worse but that's for any type weapon but single shots.

    If tossed a weapon to my wife and said "that guy's trying to kill us. MT it on him" all I want her to worry about is pulling the trigger. And in a high stress night attack and I'm betting my whole families life on it, I'd rather count on the machine.

    It's no more stressed at midnight than it is on the range at noon. If it gets the job done there it will when I need it. If it don't work on the range it's out of here.

    To keep that type of weapon ready AND safe cheaply you can use a cable type lock or a long pad lock.

    Load the magazine and leave the action open. This is a totally aceptable means of indicating the weapon is safe. Put the cable down the barrel and lock both ends near the action this can even be used to make sure the kids don't go moving it on ya if you have something good to lock it around.

    With just the long type pad lock try to fit it throught the open ejectionport and lock it over the breech.

    The weapon can not be fired with either of these in place.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (1/6/03 6:29:36 pm)
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    SlimSlam ... 1952Sniper makes some very good points, especially in handling things with your wife. Nothing will make her close her mind quicker than having you trivialize her fears. You've already said it yourself: patience is key.

    Ruffit ... this southern belle lives in southwest Mississippi, where the Spanish moss hangs thick in the live oaks, and The River is almost a mile wide.



    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (1/6/03 7:30:51 pm)
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    JR,
    Great advice on gun lock safety...man, I just can't stop learnin' here. Might have to flip a coin between a shotgun and handgun.....
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (1/6/03 7:33:01 pm)
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    SM,
    Any specific tips on how to break the ice or let her know that I'm taking a basic handgun safety course? (I'm on my knees begging....)
    SS

    blinter
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/6/03 8:17:45 pm)
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    A 20 ga shotgun has an effective rating in person to person combat. Try one as it will be easier for your wife to master.

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (1/6/03 8:33:06 pm)
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    Gee, SS, that's a toughie without knowing your wife personally. ...hmm... Maybe start off by saying the recent tragic events have made you realize that this kind of thing doesn't just happen to other people, that it's right there in your own community. Tell her how much you love her and the kids, and how devastated you would be if something happened to them, especially if there was something you could have done to prevent it. Tell her you have nightmares about seeing your children shot in the back the way the Pesce children were. (in other words, appeal to her emotions.) Then tell her you are interested in learning more about self-defense. Encourage her to take a self-defense class for women. (She needs to do this anyway, quite apart from the gun issue.) Then tell her that, as a start in learning about self-defense, you have enrolled in a basic handgun course. Reassure her that this does NOT mean that you are about to bring a gun into the house. Tell her that owning a gun is a joint decision and you would NEVER bring one into the house without her consent. But you feel it is important to be informed about all the options for self-defense, and this includes guns. Make sure you have read all the links Ruffit and others have given that answer all the anti-gun arguments. You probably know the arguments that she is most likely to use; make sure you know all the responses to those arguments. But try, as much as possible to keep the discussion focused on the idea that the class is a fact-finding mission, not a preparation for immediate gun ownership.

    If this doesn't sound like the right approach, let me know.



    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (1/7/03 6:41:11 am)
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    blinter,
    Will certainly consider the 20 ga. Thanks blinter!!
    SS
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (1/7/03 6:52:20 am)
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    SM,
    It sounds as if you do know my wife. Very sound advice and approach. You addressed several key issues that "hit home". Ya know, I keep revisiting all the posts on this thread and I keep learning from them. I could never gain this knowledge or insight from a library. I'll keep ya "posted". Thank you.
    SS
    "Help starve a feeding bureaucrat"

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5137
    (1/7/03 7:34:55 am)
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    be sure to tell her you love her and that she's pretty



    Quote:
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    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
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    ZiggedandZagged@aol.com



    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1299
    (1/7/03 8:41:09 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Home Defense Weapon
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    Rick, you old smoothie you.

    Slimslam - Another web site you may want to check out: www.americansovereign.com/wpov/womenandguns.htm

    Also, just to put a bit more to what SouthernMoss has given you in approaching you wife on the matter: A perfect icebreaker (unfortunately) to bring up the subject of home defense would be the very next time you see something on the evening news, or in the local newspaper, even remotely similar to the Pesce family incident.









    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 25
    (1/7/03 10:11:24 am)
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    ZZ2,
    Good 'un....I wrote it down so I don't forget....thanks!
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 26
    (1/7/03 10:13:34 am)
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    ruffitt,
    Excellent advice. Unfortunately, those types of articles are too easy to find....
    I will check this website out!! Thx
    SS

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 809
    (1/7/03 11:59:45 am)
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    Eh, one more thing. If you know any women who know how to use firearms or are gun-friendly, you might try to get them to help convince your wife. We males can try our best, but sometimes a woman needs to hear it from another woman before she believes it. Happens all the time with my wife.

    Plus, if she can "buddy up" with another woman who owns firearms, maybe she will take an interest in it and actually want to go to the range and/or class with you.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (1/7/03 12:44:53 pm)
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    SS,


    Quote:
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    It sounds as if you do know my wife.
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    Well, she sounds like an overprotective mother. The worry over the 16-year-old was a clue. I don't mean that as a criticism, just an observation. I have a good friend that is an overprotective mother also. My suggestions were made with my friend in mind.

    1952Sniper's suggestion to involve a woman friend is a good one. Just be careful not to make it look like you're trying to gang up on her or "force" her into anything. If I knew her personally, I'd offer to talk to her myself, but she might resent a stranger butting in....

    When is your class? Just wondering how much time you have to break the news to her.


    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 27
    (1/7/03 2:34:01 pm)
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    1952Sniper,
    Good idea....I might know someone who knows someone...It can only help..
    thx
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 28
    (1/7/03 2:40:45 pm)
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    SM,
    Yes, she is somewhat over-protective. I know she would just hate the idea of having a gun "in the house". I can hear her now, "Why do we need a gun, we have an alarm."

    My class is on Feb. 1 (Sat.). It's a one day (4 hour) session. I'd better get it together and tell her. Thanks again for your thoughts...
    SS

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (1/7/03 4:18:09 pm)
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    I'll bet the Pesce's had an alarm too......


    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 29
    (1/7/03 4:48:36 pm)
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    SM,
    No doubt....

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 30
    (1/8/03 2:09:11 pm)
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    TFF,
    For shotguns, any opinions on the Mossberg Loc-Box for shotgun safety?
    SS

    Dragon Bob
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/8/03 4:41:18 pm)
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    The assumption is that you will be at home when the self defence weapon is needed. probably an incorrect assumption. Pick a weapon that your wife can handle to protect herself and the boys. Make it one where the training & subsequent use will be fun, maybe your wife will wind up enjoying it.

    Dragon Bob

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1314
    (1/9/03 3:35:52 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Dragon Bob -

    First off,

    to our little corner of cyber space. Glad you found your way here and hope you will continue to visit with us in the future. You will find, as your time with us progresses, that we are a close nit "family" who truely enjoy our "home" on the WWW.

    I must respond to your post stating that it is not an
    Quote:
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    assumption is that you will be at home when the self defense weapon is needed. probably an incorrect assumption.
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    it is his specific desire to limit his current defense requirements to his home:
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    I am considering the purchase of a firearm for home defense only.
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    This may change in the future, based primarily on the (hopeful) acceptance of his wife allowing a weapon of any kind in the home.

    For the present we need to focus our attention on responding to his initial request and provide as much information/guidance as we can regarding that issue.

    Any subsequent issues can be addressed in the future should he seek our counsel/input.









    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 112
    (1/10/03 2:29:24 am)
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    I don't think I'd go for that 20 gauge suggestion if it were me.

    IMO they don't kick that much less. You can get low power loads for a 12 that will simulate the 20 quite well. In fact you can get about any kind of load you want for the 12.

    I doubt the same can be said for the 20 and "less is more" is deffinatly the rule when you are paying for shotgun shells.

    For your one and only self defense weapon you are going to want it as versitile as possible for home or not. You are going to want to use it, learn it, know what it is capable of and what it is not. Not to mention what YOU can realisticly expect to do with it.

    These things require using the weapon. That takes ammunition and as a general rule 12 gauge shells are going to be the cheapest available and they are going to be the ones on sale the most often. They are going to be offered in the most varied form of loadings in case you get out on the range and discover "You know I thought that...... but after actually shooting one.........".

    For darn near anything you mention other than meeting some kind of obscure hunting game tomfoolery anything a 20 can do a 12 can do better AND CHEAPER.

    Just my opinion, my first shotgun was a 20 gauge and and it took me 30 years and 10 shot guns before I bought another in that gauge. Check the places you are going to buy ammo BEFORE you buy the gun you'll have to feed.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 31
    (1/10/03 7:49:45 am)
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    Dragon Bob,
    I hear ya. My goal right now is to educate her on gun safety and minimize her fears and objections. Thanks..
    SS

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 32
    (1/10/03 8:01:55 am)
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    JR,
    If I get one, it'll probably be a 12 ga, no doubt. I think for the money, I'm leaning towards a Mossberg (model unknown). I checked out Walmart; not impressed. The search continues...
    ss

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1317
    (1/10/03 10:11:12 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    Slimslam -

    You won't go wrong choosing a Mossberg for a home defense weapon. Their Model 500 with a deerslayer barrel (which, by the way is what I have) is very easy to operate and use. I am partial to the Mossberg for a more than a couple of reasons: First is the top tang safety. You don't have to have your finger any where near the trigger to operate the safety on a Mossberg. Second, with the twin action bars it is next to impossible to lock up the action by twisting the forearm as you operate the pump function of the weapon. And a third reason I like the Mossberg is their price. While they are not the premium gun available on the market, they are, functionally, just as good as any out there while keeping their price reasonable.

    This next paragraph I have copied and pasted from a response I made in another post, but I believe it to be appropriate here.
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    One important lesson you should learn about "home defense" is that you DO NOT go around the house looking for an intruder. Your first concern is for the welfare of your spouse (if appropriate), your children (again, if appropriate), and yourself. Your first priority should be to gather all family members together (if possible) in a single room where you can close and block/lock the door. Get as far away from the door as possible, in the lowest position as possible. Only then should your weapon come into play, and then it would only be pointed at the door in the event someone tried to unlock it or brake it down. BUT DO NOT, by any means shoot through the door. Wait until the door is open and you can identify the target. All too many times it has happened where a thought-to-be intruder has entered their own home only to be met with deadly violence because the home owner did not identify the intruder (who was later found out to be a daughter/son or other family member).

    The reasons for not going throughout the house looking for an intruder are many fold and are centered around your (as the home defender) safety. Basically you want to protect (defend) your loved ones and yourself, not go looking for trouble and ending the situation with (deadly)violence.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I post the above quote because here in Michigan, once the immediate threat to life and limb has been removed it is against the law to pursue any course of action against an intruder.








    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 842
    (1/10/03 10:16:18 am)
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    I was going to pass on this, but I can't help it....

    I fully agree with making sure you identify the target. But I'll be damned if I'm going to lock myself in a room and let some punk steal everything I have while I hide from him.

    Down here in Texas, it's legal to shoot a man in the back if he's stealing your property under cover of darkness. Even if he's running away! And that's exactly what I'll do if the SOB is brave enough to try it.

    My home defense weapons are for exactly that: home defense. They will not only defend myself and my wife, but will defend my home and property.

    P.S. Sorry if I threw this thread off topic.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Edited by: 1952Sniper at: 1/10/03 10:16:53 am

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1318
    (1/10/03 10:53:26 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    1952 Sniper -

    Thanks for your thoughts and feelings regarding this topic.

    You haven't thrown the topic off subject. To the contrary, you have added additional information to a very important point of the home defense situation..

    I respect your input and the laws under which you are allowed to exercise home defense prerogatives in Texas. However, as Slimslam and I both reside in Michigan I had to provide information regarding our "limitations" when exercising our home defense options.

    Truth be known, I wish our laws were more like yours. Lowest form of life on earth is someone who steals from another, particularly when they enter your home to do so. As far as I'm concerned, there should be "open season" on them and you should be able to pursue them (anywhere) until you catch them if you have the opportunity.

    My advice in the other discussion topic was directed at an individual who is new to firearms and is totally green. I would rather see someone use an extreme defensive posture in a situation than go out and possibly get themselves in trouble until they become more proficient and knowledgeable in the use of firearms










    Edited by: ruffitt at: 1/10/03 11:05:16 am

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
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    (1/10/03 1:55:10 pm)
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    Very good. Like I said, I was going to pass on it (since I knew he wasn't in Texas), but I just had to say that. I understand your point, and it is more relevant to his situation than to mine.

    But even if I lived in Michigan, I'd still shoot the SOB, then put a knife in his hand.

    "Your Honor, I plead not guilty on the grounds of self-defense."
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    505799
    Member
    Posts: 33
    (1/10/03 11:39:16 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Shotguns for home defense
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    If no one else said it, I will.

    If you think there is any possibility you may hesitate to use a firearm to protect yourself or a loved one, get a German Shepard. Properly trained, they won't hesitate.

    If, however, you believe a firearm is the right option, I believe pump action shotguns have one feature that makes them the ideal home defense weapon -- the sound of a round being racked into the chamber. There is no other sound on earth that is like it.

    As for spousal concerns/fears about the recoil, Federal makes shotgun ammunition called "personal defense" rounds. These rounds contain slightly less powder than a full up round, and consequently have less recoil. But at home defense distances, they'll kill someone just as dead as a 00 buck magnum round.

    I got a box of the PD rounds for my anti-gun,"it'll kick too hard" spouse to try. After firing a few she agreed that the 12ga Remington 870 I use to defend hearth and home didn't kick all that hard. She even agreed that shooting it was "a little fun." Pick my jaw up off the floor....

    I keep my 870 loaded with (in order they will be fired):
    2 Federal PD rounds
    2 Remingtons with number 4 buck
    1 1 oz slug round (I forget who makes it)
    1 Flechette round (these are 3mm steel darts--nasty)

    I back that up with my personal carry firearm, a Sig 226 (preban, 15 rounds) loaded with Federal hydroshocks.

    Whatever firearm you choose to go with.... remember to be safe, be responsible, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Shooting is a skill and shooting to save yourself or your loved ones takes epitimy of skill, because there may not be a chance for a second round.

    And welcome.





    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 33
    (1/11/03 8:42:41 am)
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    ruffitt,
    Excellent advice, as always. Can you be specific as to which Mossberg 500? It appears that there are a number to choose from, ie, Maverick, Mariner, Persuader, Double Action.....also, do you think the Mossberg Loc-Box for shotguns is effective? A lock like this may reduce my wife's fears.

    Incidentally, I stumbled across an indoor firing range/gun shop not far from my home. It is owned and operated by several local police officers. Very nice. Non-member range rentals are $12/hr and only $5 for gun rental. Thanks again for the sound advice.
    ss



    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1330
    (1/13/03 3:38:27 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    I'm gonna get this darned thing posted if it takes me all night!!! I have responded to your post three times yesterday/today, and each time the cyber goblin has gobbled it up. Or ezboards "upgrade" liked it so much it took it for itself to munch away on it. Anyway, here we go on to the reply.

    The Mossberg I have at home is a Model 500AE circa 1996/97. It is just the 12 gauge shotgun, then I purchased a separate "slug" barrel for it. Any of the model 500's should do you well for your intended purpose. The Maverick is the less expensive line of shotguns that Mossberg manufactures, while the others are "specialty" weapons that you really don't need.

    As for the lock box, I think that at $43.00 a crack they are a bit expensive; when for less than half that price ($19.95) you can get a (click here) Tuffys Gun Collar that does the same thing. Properly installed, anyone wanting to get access to your weapon would have to almost tear a wall down to get access to it. These things bolt right into the stud work of the house, so getting them lose would be a definite "chore" for someone to do. I, myself, think they are a good - inexpensive, investment/safety device.





    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 35
    (1/14/03 6:40:06 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotguns for home defense
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    ruffitt,
    thanks for the Mossberg suggestions and Tuffy Gun lock link. Can't wait to try out the range soon!
    ss

    blinter
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (1/24/03 11:25:35 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: rent before you buy
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    The Mossberg in 20 ga is a good stopper and easy to handle and low in recoil.

    The slug load is devastating, same energy as the 45-70, and the buckshot load is adequate too.


    Go to Stopping Power Forums.net for stats on effectiveness of shotguns. And remember statistics show home defense issues take one round to chase away a Bad Guy. Keep all the same ammo in the magazine and practice a lot for a while. Look up a shotgun defense course in your area too.
    "Those that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Ben Franklin, (1759)

    Edited by: blinter at: 1/24/03 11:34:49 pm

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 30
    (1/24/03 11:38:02 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Home Defense Weapon
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    Hey, Slimslam, how about an update? Your class is next weekend, right? Have you tried out the firing range that you mentioned? Have you made any progress in allaying your wife's fears?

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 38
    (1/25/03 9:33:38 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: rent before you buy
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    blinter,
    Will check it out...thanks!!
    ss

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 39
    (1/25/03 10:02:00 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Home Defense Weapon
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    SouthernMoss,
    Yes, my Basic Handgun Safety course is next Saturday. I am looking forward to it.

    I went to the firing range yesterday (I had the day off), however, they had a open house with reps in from Glock, promotional events, etc. It was not the right time.

    Shamefully, I haven't made any attempts to begin a dialogue with her yet (insert chicken sounds here). I'll take the course first and get that under my belt. Honestly, I cannot imagine anything that would allay her fears (except an actual break-in to our home). I am reading the John Lott book, "More Guns, Less Crime" right now...and Larry Elder's book "The Ten Things You Can't Say In America" has an excellent chapter on firearm ownership. I think if I have her read excerpts from these types of sources, it may help her. I know if I sat down with her to discuss gun ownership, no matter how logical, she would shut down.

    I have a strategy that I believe will work. I am going to the range with the husband of one of her closest friends in February. Him and I have already confirmed this via e-mail. He currently owns a couple of handguns. IMO, this might be the most effective way to break the ice on the subject.

    SouthernMoss, thanks for the follow-up post on my progress, er, lack of.
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1417
    (1/25/03 2:19:42 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: rent before you buy
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    Slimslam -

    You might consider talking with the friend you are going to the range with next month and ask if it is ok if the two boys come along. You could allow them to shoot a few rounds each and get them somewhat enthused about the situation. That is, unless she has previously, absolutely, banned their presence around firearms.

    Guaranteed it will open up communication on the subject.

    You will, of course, have to weigh this course of action in regards to your home life situation.

    Good luck






    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 40
    (1/25/03 4:42:45 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: rent before you buy
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    ruffitt,
    That is a good idea. It would be a good way to address the natural curiosity of firearms and yes, I will need to figure in my home life situation. Thanks for the insight!
    SS

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1425
    (1/25/03 6:07:58 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: rent before you buy
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    Slimslam -

    Something for you to take a gander at: www.i-depth.com/P/r/rq004...sg/12.html

    Situation is unfortunate, however sometimes extreme measures are called for. No one is safe, even in their own house anyore.






    madciti
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/27/03 4:27:24 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Sympathy & tips from someone in a similar situation
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    SS, man I can definitely sympathize with you.
    I grew up in a strong RTKB (right to keep & bear) home, grew up going to the range on weekends, Dad had a S&W .357 mag under the mattress, we hunted, the whole 9 yards. I grew up, got busy with life, dropped out of the gun scene for several years. While gone, I met and married a wonderful woman, who (I didn't find out 'till much too late) is very anti-gun. She would just as soon see every gun in America destroyed, and I can't convince her otherwise, because years ago some <edited for content> jack*ss she knew was playing around with a loaded gun, discharged it accidentally, and (thankfully) missed her, but only by a few inches -- close enough she heard the whistle as it went by.
    Consequently, "gun" is pretty much a four-letter word to her, as is "NRA". "Brady", on the other hand, is a word of reverence. You can see where I'm going. Opposite ends of the spectrum.
    I've gotten back into shooting in the last year or so, and it's one of those "agree to disagree" things. She knows I do it, but won't have anything to do with it, won't discuss it, won't come within 10 feet of a gun if she knows it's there, etc. She doesn't know where the weapons are, but does know that they are all properly secured and out of sight.
    In my (humble, somewhat inexperienced) opinion (only married 3 1/2 years), sometimes it's best not to push the other person to "convert" when it comes to strongly held beliefs, so long as they are willing to respect your own strongly held beliefs. While I understand completely about that uncomfortable silence that may come between yourself and your wife when it comes to guns, if you're honest with her and realistic in your requests, I think things will turn out ok. If there's mutual trust and respect, then she will (I assume) trust you to act safely and responsibly in your gun handling, storage, and other endeavours. Although my wife strongly opposes guns, she has indicated a willingness to let me involve my son in shooting when he is old enough.
    We'll see if that's still true in eight or ten years (he's 1 1/2 now), but it's a good sign. Take it slowly, no pressure, and perhaps she will come around eventually. If she doesn't, it's not the end of the world, so long as she's willing to consent to having a secured gun on the premises. Oh, and be proactive in reassuring her that the gun will be properly secured at all times.

    I don't have any personal advice on how to handle the whole guns and kids thing since my child isn't old enough for me to have gone through it yet, but I will say this: when growing up, Dad made sure we all knew he had guns (they were locked in a glass display case, with a cable going through the trigger guards), and he made sure we all knew he had the .357 loaded and under his mattress. (In hindsight, perhaps not the wisest move to leave a loaded handgun unlocked and unsecured, but...) The catch is this -- we ALL KNEW, in no uncertain terms, that he would whip us severely if we EVER touched a gun without his presence and express consent. You may feel differently about spanking, but it definitely did the trick in our house. I was tempted, but when I weighed the options of either not touching the guns with no consequences or touching them and being in a world of trouble, I always chose the safer avenue.
    Point is, kids should probably know weapons are there, but also understand in absolute terms, that they are never to touch them without your express permission and supervision, EXCEPT in the case where there is an intruder and YOU can't get to the gun.

    One other thing -- I have the same problem with a shotgun -- i.e. kids getting at it and wife not wanting to see it, so I ultimately chose a .40 cal Smith & Wesson automatic. It's a reliable name, an excellent caliber for self / home defense, and easily locked and concealed. HOWEVER, were it not for said problem, I would undoubtedly have a 12ga Mossberg pump-action shotgun at hand. If you've ever witnessed first-hand what a load of 00 buckshot will do to a target backed with 2x4 lumber at five to ten feet you'll never feel the same way about any other defensive weapon again.

    Well, I've rambled on for too long now. Hope this is all taken as intended, i.e. as paralell experiences from which you might gain some insights, and not as any type of "you should do" advice.

    Best luck to you, and don't give up hope. It's an uphill battle, but remember that your ultimate goal is to be able to protect the lives of the ones you love the most.

    Kind regards,
    madciti

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 2132
    (1/27/03 7:32:02 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: rent before you buy
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    Madciti, Welcome to the forum.

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 32
    (1/27/03 8:58:40 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Sympathy & tips from someone in a similar situation
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    Good post, Madciti. I'm sure Slimslam will gain much insight from it.

    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 41
    (1/27/03 8:35:33 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Sympathy & tips from someone in a similar situation
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    madciti,
    Thanks for the sympathetic and empathetic post. I can understand why your wife is anti-gun after her experience. I've been married 22 years to a wonderful woman and I agree that I should not try to "convert" her to my beliefs. Like you said, all I can ask is that she respect my beliefs.

    I must be able to convince her that the firearm will be safe and secured in our home. That'll be a challenge too.

    Your thoughts and insights (and all who have replied to my initial post)are much appreciated. If I didn't receive this caliber (excuse pun) of support via TFF, I probably would not have continued to pursue this matter. It's all uphill from here....ramble on!
    A heartfelt thanks to ALL who have replied to my concerns and predicament!
    SS




    Slimslam
    Member
    Posts: 45
    (2/2/03 9:21:29 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Sympathy & tips from someone in a similar situation
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    This is dripping in IRONY. I was looking forward to my first firearm safety course (yesterday), however, I was unable to attend due to an unforeseen family illness. Go figger. I drove out to meet the instructor early to ask him if I could attend his spring session instead. He felt it would not be a problem.
    Truly bummed,
    ss





    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 37
    (2/2/03 9:39:39 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Sympathy & tips from someone in a similar situation
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    That's too bad, SS. I hope the family member is on the mend. Hang in there. You knew this project would be an ongoing process; this is just a delay in that process. Are you still going to the range with your friend?

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1465
    (2/2/03 2:14:51 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Sympathy & tips from someone in a similar situation
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    Bummer on the illness and double bummer on having to miss the class. Sometimes things just aren't meant to be as we want them.

    So, until you can attend the class in the spring, you'll just have to hang around here and hopefully garner a bit more information related to your present situation.

    Hope nothing crops up and postpones or cancels your shooting outing with your friend.

    Regards
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