how God feels about killing ?

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by goofy, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member

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    I was talking to a friend about what God says about killing. We agreed that it is said you should not kill but what about war or if you kill someone breaking in to your house?I beleave that through Jesus God will forgive all sins does this include killing someone? and whare in the bible does it talk about this?
  2. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    That translation of the commandment that simply states "Thou shalt not kill" is a bit briefer than it actually should be. Notice that the death penalty is prescribed for several offenses, which seems to show that the Bible contradicts itself - which it does not do.

    In that commandment, the Hebrew word translated "kill" is רָצַח
    which is pronounced "Ra-Tsach", and it is not simply kill as we usually use that word, but means to cause the death of someone who is undeserving of it. Most translations, even the New King James, use "murder" instead of kill. It forbids the taking of anothers life for personal gain, but does not prohibit capital punishment for a crime, nor lives taken in self defense or in defense of innocents.
    It goes a bit beyond that, though - it also means that if through inaction you allow someone to die, you are guilty. If someone is starving and you have the means to give them food and prevent their death, yet fail to do so - you are guilty.

    You absolutely have the right to defend with lethal force your life and the lives of others, both on a personal level and on a national level as in a war.
    For my part, considering the usual result of a home invasion, if someone is kicking in my door I will assume they are goiing to kill me, and I will stop them with lethal force.
  3. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    God also knows your heart , did you kill for profit , for power ? or self defence or fear for your family ? .. God will know , and if your like the rest of us, God will judge you on that .. its often not the what with God , but the why ...
  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    In the 1920s, "gay" meant "happy". Now it means "homosexual". Words change their meanings over time. In the time of King James, if you killed someone legally - in a duel, defending yourself or your family from thieves, during war - you SLEW them. The only time KILL was used was when you murdered someone.

    As to how God feels about killing - he must like it. He did so much of it. Killed all the people in Sodom and Gomorrah. Killed all the people in Jericho. Killed all the first born males, including new-born babies, in Egypt. Killed 99.9999999999999% of the people on the Earth with a flood.
  5. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I don't think God LIKES killing as much as he simply does not view it with the absolute horror that we do.
    We see death as the END of existence.
    From God's perspective, death is merely a transition from one phase of our eternal existence into the next phase.
  6. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member

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    Should a person who has killed say in a war or home invason ask for forgiveness or should I say does he NEED to ask for forgiveness.This was part of the talk I had with my fellow Vet.He felt that he was going to go to hell for what he did and I said that if that was true then I to would be going to the same place but I believe that when I asked for forgiveness for what I did in Nam that God understood and through Jesus name I was forgiven.Do you think that I did not need to ask ( still do not feel right about what I did ) and God understands or do you feel there is a need to ask?
  7. 45nut

    45nut New Member

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    Hold on there Baba-Louie!! :eek: :D I work a heck of a lot of my time and I don't like it one bit. I'd rather be independently wealthy with many bamboo fly rods and fully automatic weapons at my disposal, but I have to be content with 7 or 8 good bamboo rods and 1 great one and semi auto only. :mad: :D:D:D

    And if you look closely at the killing ordered by God and done by God in the flood, none of it was done without looking for righteous people first. In the flood for instance, only Noah and his immediate family (out of how many millions of people??) were righteous and everyone else that rejected God's love got God's wrath. Seems fair to me. Noah told them if you don't repent you will die in a flood.
  8. H-D

    H-D Active Member

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    You need to search your heart , if you feel what you did was outside your duty or you killed when killing wasn't necessary you may need to pray for forgiveness, it never hurts to pray for any reason, pray for God to let you know if you've done wrong in his eyes and see if God lays a burden on your heart for what was done, if so then pray for forgiveness, but it's not for men to judge what was done
  9. herohog

    herohog New Member

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    I understood it to be "Thou shall not MURDER" which is completely different but does match up with the rest of the bible where killing is OK in certain instances.
  10. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Goofy, I believe there are two reasons to ask for forgiveness: Subjective and Objective.

    In the case of objective need, you have flat out sinned, no doubt about it, and you need to ask forgiveness for that in order to have your sins removed.

    In the case of subjective need, you THINK that you MIGHT have sinned, and you should ask for forgiveness for any sins you MIGHT have committed. If you did something that was a sin, it will be forgiven and removed. If no real sin was committed, - well, no harm, no foul.

    It does have to be genuine, though - you must be repentant in your heart over anything you MIGHT have done.

    I have asked for God to forgive any wrong intent I MIGHT have had on many occasions.
    I think about the young man that I had a 12 gauge centered on his belly and was squeezing the trigger. He turned away and I did NOT kill him, but I had already made the decision to blow him away, and I was squeezing the trigger, so the INTENT was there. I certainly regret that incident, and have asked God to forgive any wrong I did by making that decision, even though if the circumstances were exactly repeated I would make the identical decision again.
    I was GOING to kill him.
    I did not WANT to kill him, and as I squeezed the trigger I was praying for God to intervene - which He did.

    Whether or not there is a NEED for such asking for forgiveness is based solely on what is in your heart at the time, just as Jack said above.
  11. carver

    carver Moderator

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    Luke 22:36
    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
  12. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Indeed -
    Almost all modern translations use "murder" instead.
  13. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Active Member

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    now wait a min...I am not convienced God did this one..while God has in fact killed a fair portion of people..it seems to me he did try to offer them all a diffrent path than the one they were on! and still does today!

    those people really killed themselves..after all the CREATOR reserves the right to destroy his (or HER) creation..right? seems the human race reserves that right all the time. and we dont even offer a diffrent path before destroying them. Seems we still have a bit to learn!!
  14. Juker

    Juker New Member

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    From Ecclesiastes 3 (KJV):

    1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
    3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    6 a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    7 a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
  15. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I received an e-mail from a member regarding this thread, but they have their e-mail blocked so I cannot respond in kind. I will therefore put my response here in this forum.

    The gist of their e-mail was that the translation "murder" in this commandment instead of "kill" was incorrect.
    I certainly admit that, although I have studied it, I am NOT a Hebrew expert. I therefore defer to references on the topic. From the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, there is this passage regarding that exact word.
    I have emphasized in bold the part dealing with which is the better translation of the Hebrew term.

    Derivative
    2208a ‏רֶצַח‎ (reṣaḥ) <H7524> shattering (Psalm 42:11; Ezekiel 21:27).
    rāṣaḥ is a purely Hebrew term. It has no clear cognate in any of the contemporary tongues. The root occurs thirty-eight times in the OT, with fourteen occurrences in Numbers 35. The initial use of the root appears in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:13). In that important text it appears in the simple Qal stem with the negative adverb, "You shall not murder," being a more precise reading than the too-general KJV "thou shalt not kill." Much has been made of the fact that the root rāṣaḥ appears in the Mosaic legislation, as though this term bore a special connotation of premeditation, as though the Decalogue only proscribed premeditated crime. This is not the case. The many occurrences in Numbers 35 deal with the organization of the six cities of refuge to which manslayers who killed a person accidentally could flee. Numbers 35:11 makes completely clear that the refuge was for those guilty of unpremeditated, accidental killings. This makes clear that rāṣaḥ applies equally to both cases of premeditated murder and killings as a result of any other circumstances, what English Common Law has called, "man slaughter." The root also describes killing for revenge (Numbers 35:27, 30) and assassination (2 Kings 6:32). It appears in a few poetic contexts, as an "A" word in a peculiar parallel construction (Job 24:14); as an "A" word parallel to a general term for immorality, zimmâ (Hosea 6:9); as a "B" word parallel to another synonym "to kill," "to slay" (Psalm 94:6). In only one case in the whole OT is the root used of the killing of man by an animal (Proverbs 22:13). But even in that context it is the enormity and horror of the deed which is primary. In all other cases of the use of rāṣaḥ, it is man's crime against man and God's censure of it which is uppermost.
  16. Juker

    Juker New Member

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    Amen, Terry.

    The Word of God never contradicts itself.

    In Genesis 9:6 we are told: "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made He man."

    In Ecclesiastes 3 we are told: "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... a time to kill..."

    Thus it does not follow that in Exodus, we are told not to kill. If this commandment was all-inclusive, it would directly contradict the many instances in the Word when we are clearly told that killing is justifiable in many instances.
  17. 45nut

    45nut New Member

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    As when God commanded Saul to kill every living thing of the Conflagdomites (?) and when Samuel the prophet came into camp asked Saul, "Is that the bleating of sheep I hear?"

    So if God did indeed command us not to kill, then He violated his command by telling Saul to kill everyone, women & kids.... oh the .......horror.

    Sometimes killing is to purge evil from a place or people. Like when the Israelites entered the Promised Land of Canaan, they were supposed to kill all the canaanites. They didn't and intermarried and began to worship the canaanites idols instead of / along with God.

    Sin in the camp..... time to be taken captive again so we can purge the evil from ourselves.
  18. 45Auto

    45Auto Active Member

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    The Bible says many such things which are denegrated as "liberal" ideas in some circles.
  19. Teejay9

    Teejay9 New Member

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    The commandment refers to murder. You take someone's life. Killing, as in war, seems to be justified, as Alpo points out. For those who read or know the Bible, have you ever noticed the shift in God's chacteristics from the Old and New testements? In the OT, He seems pretty angry a lot of the time, while in the NT, He's much more pacified and loving. Just my thoughts, which change often. TJ
  20. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    You sure are right.

    Some folks have a hard time differentiating between feeding the NEEDY and facilitating the LAZY.

    The Bible is quite clear on the difference:

    2 Thessalonians 3:10 (KJV)
    For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.