Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by goofy, Oct 3, 2011.
Amen ! JR
I think that you are referring to my e-mail yesterday. I don't know why mine is blocked, but I will check into it.
Your response probably covers the subject, but just to clarify, if necessary, this was my original e-mail. It is actually a "canned response" that I have saved because of the frequency of running into this subject.
"Some folks think that the Biblical command says, "Thou shalt not murder."
This is false, and its falsehood can be proved from the Bible itself. Exodus 20:13 says, "Lo tirtzach." Don't kill. The word "kill" (or, some contend, "murder") is spelled Resh Tsadhe Ches. Can we find this word elsewhere in the Bible where it will be perfectly clear whether it means "kill" or "murder?" In this particular case, yes! In Numbers 35:26-8, after extensive discussion of intentional vs. accidental killing and its relation to the cities of refuge, the Bible uses the word "rotzeach" (killer), spelled with the same root letters, to refer to an INNOCENT killer while describing the rules applying to him and those who would avenge his accidental victim's death. It also uses the same word, "ratzach," to describe the PERMISSIBLE killing of the accidental killer if the avenger of the blood finds him outside the city of refuge.
Without any doubt whatsoever, the proper translation of "Lo tirtzach" is "Don't kill." There are certainly exceptions to this commandment, as listed in the Bible itself, but that is what the words mean.
If you wish to study this further and do not read Hebrew, you should consult an orthodox rabbi with the references, or perhaps take a look at an interlinear translation [Zondervan?] of the Bible in a Christian bookstore. Obviously, if you read Hebrew, you need only look at those verses in any Chumash."
I don't doubt the usefulness of your looking into other occurrences of this word, and you have shown me that it is time for me to break out my concordance. Thanks!
See i see this and wonder why i did not study this more , thanks for the input folks i learned a lot ..
i'll raise this as a personal view only
we have a new testament, its written on the tablet of our hearts..
to me this means the following ..
i dont like being stolen from , so i dont steal ,
i dont want to be killed for no reason , so i wont kill for no reason
i dont like being lied to , so i dont lie ..
i dont wish to be a victim either so i wont be one , even if i have to kill someone to do so ..
we know whats wrongful even if we try to justify it somehow
, the bible is a mix of different peoples views of God , as with any such creation the more that contribute multiplies the chances of conflict, , but with any mass influenced derived result the "whole" of the result is most accurate
its like range finding by multiple configurations
take a squad of troops , get them each to work out the range to somewhere ( distance )
average the result and you'll have a pretty accurate result ..
the bible is similar
its many people ( flawed as we are) own view of the history and actions of our Creator as best they could describe in the language of the day it was written
but as a whole it shows , killing should be avoided when possible and right to do so , but when needed should be done as quickly and with all your might , as possible ..
treat the Book as Whole , not just as points to be argued .. it shows a lot that way eh ..
When I was 9 I got my first bb gun. I became very good with it too. One day a sparrow flew into a branch of an oak tree next door to us. I couldn't see the bird but I heard him and knew right where to aim. So I shot it. Down it fell. I was kicked in the gut. I cried, and felt terrible.
But I was comforted. God spoke to me and told me that I must master the art of hunting and killing to feed myself. Not that I had to do it to eat, but I had to learn to do it to survive.
So for a while i went on a killing spree. Killing lots of birds and small game. Then one day God had another little talk with me. He told me it was wrong to kill all those animals if I wasnt going to eat them. So I stopped killing them for no reason. Now I hunt and kill an awful lot of animals now but it goes in the freezer.
OK. So this is kinda thread drift but I do believe you can sin aganist an animal too.
As far as having to kill a human I look at it like this. Regardless of what any book or what any one says I have absolutly no problems with causing death to another if it is justified to me. Now I am not saying justified like in Physo.
Doesn't matter if I got dropped out of a helo on a hot LZ or if i am held at gunpoint. Once my life is in danger death will come to someone swift and unknowing. No matter who says what. That is something my heart is comfortable with, and i will not loose any sleep over it.
That is what i have come to terms in my mind. I guess thats a little talk with the father too. If i felt it was wrong I would have a different outlook.
And no i would not need to ask for forgivness.
Now Stallin, Moa, Hitler, it would be wise if they had asked for forgivness. Just saying
Weather MURDER or just KILLING, I know he dont like the 50 MILLION UNborn killed in the last 30+ years in the US.
Someone (many) wiill pay for this transgression.
model195fan, it was indeed your e-mail I was speaking of, and I thank you for repeating it here. I never publish anyones e-mail without their permission, and the thoughts are greatly clarified by your posting it.
This discussion has driven MANY into word studies and scripture, and that is GREAT!!
It caused me to do a bit of a survey of my literature too:
Besides the Theological Wordbook quoted above;
My interlinear Bible, printed by Baker Book House, uses the word murder.
The Brown-Driver-Briggs-Genesius Hebrew-English Lexicon lists this word as:
"Murder, Slay, With premeditation"
KJV uses kill (1611)
Darby's translation uses kill
American Standard Version uses kill
NKJV uses Murder
KJII uses Murder
English standard Version uses murder
Gods Word translation uses murder
New American Standard Bible (1977) uses murder
New Century Version uses murder
New Internatinal version uses murder
New Living Translation uses murder
New Revised Standard Version uses murder
The Living Bible uses murder
The Message uses murder
Youngs Literal Translation uses murder
The Holy Bible, Revised Version uses murder
The Bible in Basic English uses "do not put anyone to death without cause"
Of my 20 references surveyed, I count only 3 for the general "kill" and 17 for murder, premeditation, or 'put to death without cause'.
If there is a specific commentary that uses 'kill', I probably have that also, but I need to know which one because I have a TON of paper commentaries; too many to look through them all.
Thank you, guys for all the input on this!
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