How to I get a full auto?

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms & Related Items' started by g2gunny, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. medalguy

    medalguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    623
    Yep, lots of ammo. 1000 rounds won't last very long.

    Attached Files:

  2. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,519
    Location:
    Indiana
    Correct. But you took my quote out of context.

    I know that a trust isn't going to still be good in 800 years. I was contrasting a trust, which requires a one-time setup, with a corporation. A corporation has to file taxes every year. If you don't file taxes for some time, the corporation no longer exists, which leaves the person with an unregistered NFA item! :eek:

    Huh? I've never heard that before.

    It's my understanding that NFA trusts are just like other trusts. If the trust is set up so that the grantor has the authority to change trustees (which is normal for a revocable trust), why can't the trustee change? Amend the trust, and it's done.

    Do you have an ATF ruling to back your claim? I'm confused, because that's the exact opposite of how trusts normally work.
  3. Maine04657

    Maine04657 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Maine
    That is why they are called NFA trusts and not trusts. NFA items are not NORMAL either in regulation or logic. Feel free to call the ATF and ask them or any lawyer who deals with them.
  4. Maine04657

    Maine04657 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Maine

    I don't like it when people have more ammo then me... LOL
  5. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    9,972
    Location:
    florida
    easy to fix!
  6. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,519
    Location:
    Indiana
    An NFA trust is just a trust that holds NFA items. The trust is the owner. But it's still just a trust. It can own a silencer, a machine gun, 500 acres of farmland, and a cruise ship. Still just a trust.

    The trust is created, and all the terms of the trust defined, before the trust owns any NFA items. The stuff the trust owns can't change the terms of the trust.

    Indiana law specifies that the settlor has the authority to amend or revoke a trust unless that trust expressly provides that the trust is irrevocable. The naming of trustee(s) is part of the trust, and therefore the trustee(s) can be amended. (IC 30-4-3-1.5)

    So please, if you have an ATF ruling that states differently, share it. Otherwise I'm going to have to believe the law of my state.
  7. Maine04657

    Maine04657 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Maine
    Again your trying to use logic. The links you give do not mention a NFA trust. ALL and I mean EVERY legal NFA item must be registered and sale approved by the ATF. If we where to apply your logic then person gets a NFA trust buys 10 NFA items. That person dies we just add a new name to the NFA trust before death then he/ she gets the items as the trust in your mind is still valid. So this would mean there would be way of knowing who had the items. Does this sound like something the ATF is going to allow? Following your thinking one could keep a NFA trust going forever by just changing the name at the top. Never doing a transfer of any type? Or what if they SELL the NFA trust. You can sell a irrevocable or revocable trust to another person. If this was allowed with a NFA trust the ATF would loose track of every NFA item and every dealer would place every item in a trust as doing so would negate the sale all further tax stamps on already existing NFA items especially big ticket MG's. You feel free to try any of this let me know how far you get.
  8. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,519
    Location:
    Indiana
    There is no such thing as an "NFA trust"! It's just a trust that holds happens NFA items! It's not a magical, different type of legal instrument. You don't need a separate trust to hold NFA items if you're already the trustee for your own trust.

    The part of a trust that can't be changed is the grantor/settlor, the person who funds it initially. When that person dies, the trust become irrevocable (if not already) and the stuff in the trust does whatever the trust says, often moving on to the named beneficiary (in the case of NFA items, on a tax-free Form 4).
    But the person who is responsible for holding the property of the trust, the trustee, can be changed.

    And a trust can be sold, sort of. The beneficiary has a legal stake in the trust that can be sold. But the beneficiary isn't the one who possess the items.
    A trustee's position can't be sold by the trustee. It could, I guess, be sold by grantor/settlor, but only an idiot would buy it. The grantor could change the trustee again ten minutes later and keep all the money; the buyer would have no recourse.

    I'm asking again, what evidence do you have that trusts holding NFA items act differently than all other legal trusts?

    (Note to all Readers: I am not an attorney in any state, and I'm definitely not your attorney. Don't take anything I say as legal or other professional advice.)
  9. Maine04657

    Maine04657 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Maine
    I am not sure I can elaborate further. Also you may want to know there are REVOCABLE and IRREVOCABLE trusts. The former ( what most NFA trust are ) is basically nothing more then a will. If you find a lawyer who tells you he can make a NFA go forever by changing the name or a way to sell the trust with all it's contents please let me know there is a fortune to be made doing so.
  10. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,519
    Location:
    Indiana
    Trusts are NOT wills. Different legal instrument for different purposes. Yes, they are both often used for estate planning, but that doesn't make them "basically" the same thing.

    And I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I am not saying that you can pass ownership of a trust from person to person perpetually. I didn't say anything like that. I said that if you create a trust and then never do anything else with it for the rest of your life, there is still a trust. This is in contrast to a corporation. If you create a corporation and never do anything else with it for the rest of your life, the corporation goes out of existence. (In Indiana, a corporation has to file a report with the secretary of state every two years, and failure to do so can start the process dissolve the corporation.)
    So, my point was that trusts are a do-it-once legal entity, while corporations require constant upkeep.

    The part about "making a NFA go forever by changing the name" or selling a trust completely is not at all what I said. I don't know what I wrote that gave you that idea, but it's not something I intended to convey.

    The trust owns the property, and the trustees possesses/holds title of the property. But changing the trustee doesn't transfer the NFA item, as the trust is still the owner.
  11. dad2thebone

    dad2thebone New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,357
    Ok a question. Do trust items avoid probate? Might be you answered this but the meds im on slow me so i may have missed something. I've wondered about this for a while. Thanks
    Brian
  12. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,519
    Location:
    Indiana
    Brian,

    Yes! This is one of the major advantages of a trust over a will.

    To better understand just what a trust is, read this http://www.karplaw.com/page/faqs-about-living-trusts
  13. Tigerstripe

    Tigerstripe Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    66
    i have one too. watch at Davidautofull@youtube. i reload 556 by the 1000s.
    by the way, how many firing pins have you broken. i have 4 saved and i think there were 2 before that. yes ive tried titanium, 2 broken in bag.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  14. WHSmithIV

    WHSmithIV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    5,461
    Location:
    Moore, Idaho
    Check out Black Ace Tactical. They have brand new pistol grip shotguns. Prices run around 700 bucks. They are magazine fed pump action shotguns for the most part.

    It may be possible to get a receiver for a Saiga build in semi auto. I haven't really looked. SXS is likely quite difficult but it is likely possible to find a new SXS shotgun receiver.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
NFA Firearms & Related Items Full auto becomes legal Jun 10, 2014
NFA Firearms & Related Items Full auto Saiga 12Ga Jul 19, 2013
NFA Firearms & Related Items Question Regarding Fully Automatic Firearms May 3, 2012
NFA Firearms & Related Items Belt fed .22lr upper....full auto. Feb 28, 2012
NFA Firearms & Related Items Glock 18 Full Auto May 16, 2011

Share This Page