How to remove frozen cylinder pin?

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by Buffalochip, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Member

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    I picked an original 1858 Remington New Army about 15 nyears ago at a flea market for $125. It is in fairly decent shape. Serial No. 55XXX. No blueing left, but strong rifling. One problem, the cylinder pin is missing the pull-out "T" that allows you to remove it when the loading lever is pulled down. AND the pin is frozen. The cylinder spins freely, but I can't get the darn thing out--I've tried driving it out from the hammer end after soaking it in WD-40, but it won't budge. Any suggestions? I have an original replacement pin and I'd really like to remove the old one. Guess I could take it to a machine shop and have them drill it out...but that could be risky. Any suggestions?
  2. BETH

    BETH Well-Known Member

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    someone will be along to help u i am sure, can i see a picture, love looking at the different guns
  3. jim brady

    jim brady Active Member

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    It would be a lot easier to do it than to tell you how. If I were in your shoes, what I'd do is to cock the hammer, then lower the loading lever, and using a small (1/8th inch) BRASS drift or punch, drive the frozen pin from the rear to the front. With the hammer fully cocked, you will be able to see the rear of the pin as you look into the hammer recess. Before you remove the pin more than half-way, you should lower the hammer, then re-cock it until the cylinder freely revolves. Then remove the pin and take the cylinder out.

    I don't know who made your revolver, but you will need a replacement cylinder retaining pin. You may be able to get one from GPC (Numrich) West Hurley, New York. Shouldn't be too expensive. Post back and let us know how you made out.

    For grins and giggles, after you're done, I'd make sure that the center hole (cylinder pin hole) in the cylinder is free from rust or scale, and that the replacement cylinder pin is lubricated during use so it won't freeze up like that again.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
  4. rhmc24

    rhmc24 Member

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    Hope you haven't beat so hard on it that it has been enlarged to bind more in the hole. For really stuck stuff, probably from rust, I have found heat most useful. Penetrating oil can only penetrate when it has a crack or crevice to penetrate into. Heat expansion can cause one part to move more than the other, allowing the penetrating oil the possibility to seep in.

    Since you have no finish I would heat it and let it cool a few times, applying penetrating oil each time. WD 40 is OK but there are better ones like Kroil. After about the third heat cycle try again to push it out. A steady push is better than beating on it if you can arrange it somehow.

    Heat wise you can heat it till it starts to turn blue without heat damage. You can then have a re-blue which you may or may not like.
  5. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I agree that may be the only way, but I would try another way first. I would remove the hammer, and let the frame soak in Kroil or another penetrant. Then try clamping what you can of the cylinder pin in a vise and try tapping the barrel or frame back off the pin using a leather or wood mallet. Only if that doesn't work would I try driving the pin forward from the back.

    Jim
  6. rhmc24

    rhmc24 Member

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    A few brainstorm thoughts. The standard center pin on the Remington is held in by the screw that the loading lever pivots on. It has a side that is flat part way to keep it from pulling free when the cylinder is removed. It would be useful to know if the cylinder is turning on the center pin or if the cylinder is frozen to it and the pin turns. If the pin does not turn it is probably the original pin stuck in the frame and could probably be drilled out from each end. If the pin does turn with the cylinder it may be a rod that was driven in to replace the original. Might be useful to remove the screw. That would take away one possible bind-up source --- such as someone replacing the center pin with a piece of quarter inch rod with a notch to allow for the lever screw. Try tapping from the muzzle end to see if there is any shift.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  7. jim brady

    jim brady Active Member

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    Yes, there is a screw that keeps the cylinder pin in place, and that will have to come out before you remove the pin from the pistol. I respect the advice rhmc24 and Jim K have provided, but in my opinion I think it's best to try to tap the pin forward from the rear BEFORE you attempt to use heat. I doubt if you will need to do that. I think that a couple taps on a brass drift will free that pin.

    I'm not telling Buffalolchip to "beat on his pistol". Brass, being softer than steel, is not likely to damage the steel surfaces. After you have tapped (TAPPED) the steel cylinder pin from the rear to break it free, and IF it refuses to move, ONLY THEN would I apply heat. You can do it either way, I am saying to try the easy fix first. And these guys are right about Kroil being better than WD40, but it sounds like you have soaked it pretty well, so that pin should move.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  8. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    True, but I prefer not to use a punch on that pin as the first resort because of the possibility of denting the frame. Brass is softer than iron (not steel), but a brass punch can still bend or dent an iron frame.

    Jim
  9. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Member

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    Thanks for all the advice. I've heated/baked the gun in an oven at 300 degrees or so before trying to tap out the pin from the rear, with no luck. The cylinder is frozen to the pin and the pin spins freely. I'll remove the screw adn then try moderately heating it with a propane torch and then soak in Kroil, rather than wd-40, a few times before trying to remove it again. If none of that works, I'll have to have it drilled. I'll let you know if it works.
  10. Insjim

    Insjim Guest

    If you have punched it to the point where you have peened the arbor this will almost be impossible to extract. I suggest soaking it for a week in kroil then pouring boiling water over it slowly to heat, Use the proper punch "Brass" be persistant and continue to heat with boiling water, if needed use a torch but stop heating right when the metal starts to smoke, If you get it to move a little knock it back and forth and continue this untill it loosens. If this does not work then it is probably not coming out. Good luck
  11. rhmc24

    rhmc24 Member

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    I think for heat to be effective you will need to turn the oven up to max 550 degrees. 560 is the temp for drawing springs. Going higher will tend to soften if any springs are in it and probably not do nipples any good.

    If you finally have to resort to drilling, since the pin turns with the cylinder, you only need to drill each end enough to free it where it is in the frame. You will need a long drill to drill from the muzzle end. That will release the cylinder to come out, then you can deal with the cylinder separately.

    Beating has probably not peened the center pin much if it still turns in the frame.

    There are some good ideas in the other posts. Brass punch, punch alternately from each end, long time soak with Kroil, etc. You might suspect that the pin may be a rod driven in from the muzzle end. If so, no amount of Kroil or heat is likely to do much good.
  12. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    while we're on the subject of frozen pins, anyone wanna tackle my Browning Hi-Power? the trigger pin is welded in place it seems... the previous owner obviously couldn't get it out either judging by the damgage to the finish/pin... annoying because I've replaced all the other springs except this one, can't get the stupid pin outta the frame... no logical explanation either... I even have the original service manual with takedown instructions in it...

    sorry to rob your thread, didn't want to start a new one... same problem though...

    maybe I will try the oven or torch trick... heat seems like my only remaining option before power tools come out...

    thanks fellas
  13. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, aa1911,

    I don't know if it will help now as damage may have already been done, but that trigger pin is held in place by the trigger return spring fitting into a groove in the pin. Sometimes, the groove is sharp and you have to use a hook to pull up on the spring so the pin will come out. It is only a slip fit and pushes right out when the spring is out of the groove.

    Jim
  14. aa1911

    aa1911 Active Member

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    thanks Jim, but alas that wasn't it either, i had pried up on that thing and visually made sure it was clear and the pin is frozen solid, this is why it has me stumped. that's the spring I'm tring to replace also, and I need to clean better in there, years of buildup... need to just hit it with the air compressor and some degreaser for now...

    mine was also modified by the original owner to fire without the magazine in place although now it's 'floating' so it 'usually' works... that stupid trigger pin though, giving me grief...

    i haven't caused any more damage yet and won't need to really remove that pin until that spring goes... but kinda annoying. Whenever i get it loose I will let you guys know what it took.

    open to any ideas too, thanks so far guys
  15. Max Donovan

    Max Donovan New Member

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    That pin is not going to come out. I have met a lot its cousins. Look at the advice I just posted for an H&R American. In my misspent youth, I bought a long twist drill and would drill the length of the pin from the rear if possible, otherwise from the front. No more, now I just saw them off, front and back and bush the cylinger. If you don't have a lathe, either get one or get a friend with one.
  16. pulltabbob

    pulltabbob New Member

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    Try some wintergreen. Go to your local dentist and beg for it. Soak it overnight and then try to remove the pin. I have used this for years to loosen up stuck or frozen items. Works about 60% of the tiime.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  17. pulltabbob

    pulltabbob New Member

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    double entry
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  18. Bigbill

    Bigbill Member

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    When using heat don't go higher than 400 degrees the metalurgy of the steel starts to change at 400 degrees.

    Blackpowder is very corrosive so its pretty much rusted stuck. I would try the PB blaster and soak it for aweek everyday. Then try to turn it or move it in and out till it frees up if you can. I have a lot of faith in using pb balster its bailed me out and saved my butt many times before. Also i'm not sure if they offer anything in the blackpowder line of products to fight and free up the parts from the corrosive blackpowder they may offer something special for it. You may want to look at www.brownells.com or at www.midawyusa.com You can also do asearch for; "blackpowder solvent rust free" alot of info comes up that may save you time too.

    When the blackpowder guns are shot they should be cleaned really good so no corrosion will happen. I've seen rust happen really bad on these guns. Bill

    Once you get it ready to reassemble put a tad of anti seeze on all the metal to metal moving parts so this won't happen again in the future.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  19. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The trigger pin on the BHP is held in by a spring sitting in a groove. It usually taps out, but sometimes the groove is deep and you have to actuallyl lift the spring out of the groove to free the pin.

    Jim
  20. sliclee

    sliclee New Member

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    When you heat a entire gun, all parts get hot,ergo all parts expand.
    Dry off the WD 40, it doesnt penetrate, liquid wrench at least let it sit for a day or 2 try using something that has light vibrations to allow penetration, same on the screw and spring. If not loose, remove hammer, lightly tap end of cyl pin with a brass punch not hard metal.
    Also LR inside cyl pin housing of frame
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
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