I feel like Glocknut

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cycloneman, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    I am in a fight with an architect. He doesn't want to show his face. I did a project exactly to specification. It was a rather large job and the baseball fields have come in question after the coach arived. This is 12 weeks after we have had this up. In 12 weeks there were 12 project meetings and no issues came up.

    I have seeked council to argue my case and the atourney just laughs at the architect's argument. However we are still in a fight and I don't know how but I am sure this will screw me.

    I am in a workers comp audit from heck. The auditors have no idea what the words cash disburstment mean on a general ledger. My wife has a full time job with the water board. The comp people are trying to say she works for my company cause she draws a check. Well we live in a community state and she is entitled to distrabutions because she ownes the company too.

    I tell ya I am just tired of fighting all the stupid. If there was a way, I would retire and leave all this bs. You now need a lawyer for everything you do.

    Ready to live on a farm and give everybody the finger. I really like to employ people and help them but its not worth it anymore.

    Anyway I am just asking for prayers. Anytime we come across tuff times my family prays and it works out. I am not just asking for myself it is also for my few workers i have left.

    It takes us on adverage 75 days to get paid now. How long do you think that will work?
  2. rocklinskier

    rocklinskier New Member

    Aug 16, 2009
    It's a sad state of affairs for sure. A man does his job, and someone tries to break him with wagon loads of BS instead of just paying him for the task. Unsavory business technique to try and break the back of someone hired rather than honoring your word. Some call that 'good business', others (myself) call it dishonest, dirty, and worthy of a severe smackdown.

    I once was a foreman for a guy who took on three big commercial jobs. Got in a bit over his head. Finished one job, and was 80% done on the second, and about 25% on the third (all on schedule). It was then that the GC decided to hold his pay out for 90 days. He could not make payroll for 90 days without drawing on these jobs. He ended up relinqueshing the jobs, and going bankrupt. The GC got all that work done, with minimum payout. Boss got paid for the complete job, and virtually nothing for the other two.

    Hang in there buddy. I hope you can weather the storm.

  3. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

    Mar 23, 2008
    What is the legal structure of your business? Is it a partnership, Sub-S corp, etc? As an owner she is entitled to dividends and if she is not an active employee then I would refuse any assessments. Are they a private insurance company? What is their audit period? Is it a 5 year retrospective (ouch)?
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  4. Willie

    Willie Active Member

    Jul 31, 2003
    I too have been screwed by comp before. The best one was when we had a audit and they told me we owed them nothing as we had paid all year correctly. Then they sent a bill for $ 4,500.00. No one could explain why we owed this money or what it was for but if I did not pay they would cancel my policy. I fought but ended up paying anyway as I needed insurance. After that I quit taking jobs that required comp(Texas is the only state not to require it to do business) and paid the B*****ds nothing for 15 years. Then I needed it again and figured I was and am ahead-for now. Also my big customers pay about 60 days from invoice. Makes me sweat it sometimes. You are not alone. Hang in there.
  5. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2008

    Exactly what happened to me. In 07 i told them that i had over paid. Landed on deaf ears and they kept my money for a one whole year. In 08 I said no, I am not maiking the same mistake. So I told them to bite me. I went to another agent and co. I am doing the audit for 08 which was due last year. No prob. Now we are going round for round. Guess what? I have a letter from them saying I overpaid again. I have a credit balance. They are picking stuff out of the audit to try to hold on to the money. Yea I like how quick they come up with the cancel letters. That is what set me off. How can I over pay you and you still want to cancel me.

    Later tonight when I have a chance I will elaborate more on the fight with the architect. Your gona love that one. I am going to put the letter i sent them on the forum. World is full of jerks
  6. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    The issue i had with the architect is simple. I did rather large job at a school. It included plenty of chain link fencing at the track, tennis courts, baseball fields as well as other places. This was a large size job over 200K.

    Over the installation there were no issues with what we did. However after the architect accepted the job, the coach walks on the baseball fields and decides he wants the wire facing inside the fields. So he goes to the principal and shtf.

    Here is my letter to the GC and the architect. I have blocked out the names.

    I am writing this in regard to our phone conversation on the morning of 12/18/09 and the email form 12/21/09. I understand that someone wants the fence wire at the baseball fields reversed and facing inside the fields. I have looked at the punch list provided and nowhere does it state to reverse the wire at the ball fields.

    FACT: We worked on the baseball field fences for 3 months. In that time frame we had at least 12 weekly progress meeting which the Architect had the opportunity to tell us he wanted the fabric on the opposite side. The owner, GC and the Architect did not.

    FACT: Unless the Architect had requested otherwise I, must install the fabric on the security side of the fence as specified. It is clear in the specification by *********** (part 3 execution 3.1.10) the wire was to be installed on the security side. Exactly what we did. Nowhere do I find instructions to deviate from this. Please see attached document specification section 02830 part 3 execution 3.1.10 which states “Install fabric on security side of fence, and anchor to framework so that fabric remains in tension after pulling force is released” This is ******* specification for the ******** School.

    FACT: In our submittal, approved by the Architect, ASTM F 567 specification for chain link fences, see attached page 4 of the standard (8.1). Fence wire is to be installed on the outside unless directed by the owner. Again, this was never conveyed to me in writing or verbally by anyone until after the punch list was out.

    I have also heard from the GC that the detail of the foul pole was to show me that the fence went on the inside of the field. Wrong! The foul pole detail is just that, a detail of the foul pole. It is not a fence elevation. The detail shows no fence fittings whatsoever. In fact at the softball field in particular, it is not possible to install the fence as drawn because that fence is on a radius. This is absurd and a lame attempt at strong-arm tactics.

    It wasn’t until **** *****, the coach, had a concern about the fence installation. This was after the Architect accepted the job. I have tried to set a meeting with the GC and ***********. Last week my request landed on deaf ears. To this day 12/23/09 ************ had not contacted the GC to arrange a meeting. On Monday 12/21/09 I had a meeting with Mr. ***** (the coach) and provided him with the specification for the project. I made it clear to him that I would be happy to reverse the wire but someone would have to bear the burden since I had installed the fence according to specification.

    I am requesting answers.

    The Architect needs to show me where he intended for us to deviate from his specification installing the fence at the baseball fields. If not we will be issuing an invoice for the additional work. This will include all areas that the Architect instructs me to reverse the wire. The smaller outfield is on a radius. The wire can’t be stretched on the inside of the radius.

    What fence lines would the coach like reversed?

    Why am I trying to satisfy the coach who was never a part of the engineering of the fields in the first place? What happens when one of the player’s fathers decides there is something he doesn’t like about the fence? Am I to change everything every Tom, Dick and Harry decides he doesn’t like?

    I have received an email from ***** *** that states. The architect will hold punch list monies until the punch list is complete and the wire is reversed. I am led to believe that no one will receive any further monies until I reverse the wire at the fields. You should have seen the look on my attorney’s face when I told him that. Shame on you *** *****. You’re going to hold other contractors money because the coach has an issue with your specification. AN ISSUE THAT IS NOT EVEN ON THE PUNCH LIST!

    The fence installer is usually the last guy to step foot on a project. We feel all the pinned up animosity that GC’s and Architect’s have on long projects like this. Over the last 15 years, I have learned to love it. Believe me when I say I have the resolve to see this to the end.

    I will address the 2 items on the written punch list because they are incorrect and I will fix them.

    I will be filing a lien on this project to protect everyone concerned. Hopefully all parties concerned will be able to take time out of their busy schedules to discuss this matter.

    In my meeting with the coach, I have a feeling that a simple solution may just be on the horizon. He is mostly concerned with the post at the backstops. The simple solution may be to install 2” foam pads at the post. That would be something the school could buy and install themselves.

    I am willing to meet with you all if you so choose.

    Let me make this clear. I am not refusing to reverse the wire. After consulting with my lawyer he has informed me that I need to be issued a change order to do the work. The exact cost involved in reversing the wire is unknown. Damage to the fields in reversing the fence is unknown. I believe just reversing the wire would bring a labor and rental burden of 15 thousand dollars. That does not include damage to the fields, which I will not be responsible for.

    Thank You,

    Here is his specification telling me what to do. I had to take a pic of it bacause i could not upload the file. The second pic is the bible that we all live by. It is ASTM specification F 567. The first line on the rt side says it all.
    The 3rd pic is a detail of a foul pole. This is where the Architect is trying to hang his hat. He says that the fence appears to be on the inside of the field. However there is no way this could possible be done. The field is on a radius and wire is not stretched inside of a radius. Besides this is a foul pole detail not a fence elevation. A true elevation would include details on how to install whatever your doing. It would show fittings to anchor the fence. It makes about as much sense as telling an electrican to look at the foul pole detail to ground the fence.

    My idea is this. When your forman calls you and asks for details on the fence I am not going to tell him to look at the foul pole detail or the detail of the back field lighting. I am going to refer to the specificaton or a elevation for the answer.

    Anyway what do you guys think? Not that I really need to know what you think. I know what I think and that is all that matters at the end of the day. However I am interested in knowing how you guys would call this.

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  7. glocknut

    glocknut Active Member

    When i read the title i thought you had bought a new gun.....

    Sad to hear its this instead.
    We sure need a Ronald Regan more now than ever!

    I will say a prayer for you my friend.

    Personall the way i feel about all this is that if i do not see political improvement in 2010 i will just give up. I dont want to be in business. I dont want to be an MSHA inspector which is basicly be a political agent for the govt. And i am soon to give up on people alltogether. I am seeing changes in oklahoma. People are getting more rude every day. When i came here people would go out of their way to help a car change into a new lane. Lately i have noticed they dont do that much. The worlds changing.....

  8. cycloneman, my father is a steel detailer, my grandfather was a steel detailer...

    they demanded that I not become one because of that BS that they hate.

    My .02 cents?

    Screw them high and screw the low and after they pay, hold off on the lien release as long as you can.

    They set the tone... and you should use it to rip them a new one.

    Good luck!!
  9. Willie

    Willie Active Member

    Jul 31, 2003
    I think you should file a lien and then follow thru with a lawsuit against the school and the coach personally. See how coach likes being served. I have been in business 30+ years and in 2007 I filed more liens than in all the previous years combined. Collected on all but one where my lawyer screwed up and the title company missed it and the house was sold. Then the title company's insurance company just told me to F*** off. It was only 4k so not much I could do.
    They used to say in this business that churches and bars were two places you did not get paid if you worked for them. Maybe schools should be added to this list.
  10. glocknut

    glocknut Active Member

    Add state and federal govts to that list as well. They want you to sign a contract that stipulates their little inspectors can reject any cut piece of stone for any reason...which on did repeadedly. At the time we were to dumb to figure out what she really wanted was to have her palm greased with a little money!!!! You wouldn't think a midwestern state such as Iowa could be as corrupt as one of the northeastern state...but its govt is every bit as corrupt.
    They're all a bunch of blagovitches....every one of them!!!!!

    God must surely be sitting in Heaven wondering if we are so stupid as to not even recognize judgement when we see it....

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