I need some self defense advice.

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    newguy13
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    (1/11/03 4:10:56 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All I need some self defense advice.
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    I'm new here and have been surfing this site for the last little while and find the information on here to be very informative. Well here is my question. I am 16 and in high school up here in Canada. For some reason, and I'm not too sure why, I have some enemies that threaten to "beat my up". Up here in Canada it is not like down there in the States. We do not have metal detectors in our schools or anything like that. There are just some people who don't like me and would like to express that with thier fists. I know that for sure they would not beat me to a point where I would not be able to go to school anymore but they would try to hurt me and I have been attached before. Now I'm not a little guy, I'm about 220lbs which most of is muscle but I do have my share of fat. I am also about 5"10' so I'm not that short. My problem is that I have never been in a real fight and don't know how I should go about defending myself. What I am asking here is for some advice on how I should defend myself the fend off these petty thugs so they think about coming after me again and I would prefer to keep them out of the hospital but if I have to I will. Thanks in advance for any info/advice.

    Oh and just a note when I'm 18 and can legally get a firearm I plan on getting myself a good old 12 guage for the home and range.

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
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    (1/11/03 8:57:35 am)
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    If you never fight back, you will always be labeled as an easy target.

    Slimslam
    Member
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    (1/11/03 9:15:42 am)
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    You could:
    1. Get a mohawk, wear a flakjacket, fold your arms and say, "you talkin' to me?...you talkin' to ME?" -or-

    2. Do the Curly shuffle. Shemp’s fighting techniques we’re always real ace too - the hair flopping around, great footwork, and idle swings at guys he’s threatening....all while spewing "Heeeebeeebeeeebeeeee...".

    Hint: #2 might be more effective as they may choke from laffin'...

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
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    (1/11/03 9:41:37 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: I need some self defense advice.
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    Sounds like you are big enough to defend your self in a fist fight. Ever seen a boxing match? Just do that. Make a fist and aim for the face. Kick them in the shin and stomp on the top of the foot.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.

    SouthernMoss
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    (1/11/03 11:22:55 am)
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    What about taking a class in martial arts? That would not only give you the techniques to defend yourself, but also an aura of confidence, which will tend to discourage bullies.

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/11/03 1:15:53 pm)
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    I'm with SouthernMoss 100%

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
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    (1/11/03 1:56:52 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: I need some self defense advice.
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    That is very true. The lack of self confidence is what bullies home in on.





    Never had any problems with the self confidence part. That is probably why I got rather good at fisticuffs I also boxed for awhile in grade school.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss. Edited by: warpig883 at: 1/11/03 1:58:25 pm


    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/11/03 7:41:29 pm)
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    Hi Newguy13......welcome to TFF.

    I think SouthernMoss gave you some good advice.

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1326
    (1/12/03 7:00:31 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: I need some self defense advice.
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    newguy13 -

    I would have to go along with what ZigZag2 and Xracer have said about the advice from SouthernMoss regarding training in the martial arts.

    Not only will you gain self confidence as well as being able to protect yourself, you are less likely to get into as serious trouble with martial arts in self defense than if you were to use a weapon of any type (knife, gun, baseball bat, tire iron, crow bar, etc.).

    You are young yet and still have a (hopefully) long life ahead of you. Do not waste it by making wrong choices just yet. You show signs of maturity by asking others for assistance with your situation, now improve on that maturity by seriously considering what we are offering.

    You are also a compassionate young person who is more concerneed with anothers welfare more than your own. This is good and a valued personal trait IF USED PROPERLY. That being said, who would you rather see in a hospital, yourself because you didn't/couldn't defend yourself; or one of the thugs who beat on you? And you also have to look at it this way; when a thug instigates an attack on someone they do it for the purpose of harming/hurting them. If they get "beat at their own game" it's just too darn bad. If he/they should wind up in the hospital they have no one to blame except themselves.

    Good luck to you





    JackRyann
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    (1/13/03 2:13:35 am)
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    I'll back up the advice on the martial arts training.

    Just a little secret here. First this is on the ASSUMPTION you are talking about what we now call an "old fashion fist fight", 90% of the problem people have is the FEAR of getting hurt.

    Something you will learn if you go very far in the martial arts is that hitting people as well as getting hit HURTS. You will get hurt, you will hurt some one else. It is unavoidable.

    What you learn is that getting hurt a little is not a permenant condition. It stops. Being humiliated or bullied does not stop unless you stop it. I would suggest pursueing all means of stopping it in a nonviolent manner first but I know enough about the teenage years to know what you are going through. Once you face the prospect that it is going to hurt and decide it is worth it to resist and make them hurt worse you are miles ahead of the majority.

    My suggestion to you is the same I gave my son. He was more than big enough. His problem was that he had self control and HE had something to lose by getting in trouble at school. Bullys rarely have either. If you have to MAKE it stop, make sure it is stopped. Do not leave any room for the thought that if they had only tried harder they may have subdued YOU. That will only encourage then to try again later and you only want to face the consequences of confrontation once. Make sure they get the messege the first time.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--

    Ballistic
    V.I.P. Member
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    (1/15/03 4:22:33 am)
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    damn im 17, 140lbs and 5'9" and never been in a fight, xcept in elementary school, i was considered big then, 5foot in 5th grade, but back to the point i was never in a fight in high school, i guess everyone thought i was out there, (was a outkast in school) but if you do get in a fight ill say this, NEVER and i mean NEVER give up until they are cringing on the floor in the fetal position crying! as long as you keep on it you should be fine, a man of your size should be able to do some nice damage compared to me... and if you do get behind them choke them until they cant take it anymore but dont let go completely if they put up a fight still doo it longer until they cant fight back...
  2. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

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    If you are ruthless and decisive people get the mistaken impression that you are quick...don't be afraid to pick up and use improvised weapons (chairs, books, whatever is handy, heavy and not too lethal)...pepper spray is a nice little can of whoopass that can keep you from looking like you just got in a fistfight
    Last edited: May 31, 2003
  3. Evilahole

    Evilahole New Member

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    If you're out numbered, go for the most lethal or vital points possible...eyes, throat, elboes and knees.
    If you can dive shoulder first full force into the knee of one of the attackers, he will never walk again without limping.
    If you get behind one and can't get a choke hold, dig your fingernails into his upper gums...if asked he will take you to his bank and withdraw all his money for you.
    Always avoid fights whenever possible, but if it's GOING to happen whether you like it or not, fight as if your life depended on it. And above all...remember, there is no such thing as a "fair fight". Do whatever it takes to ensure your survival.
  4. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

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    I suggest Brazilian Jui Jitsu, pop the cap in someones elbow and when the others hear the guy screaming like a women they will go and f**k off like they should do. Start taking Muy Thai for a standing fight and rely on the BJJ for ground. These arts are no nonsense and very effective on the street, they are not the "kick people off a horse style" like Tai Kwan Do, REAL karate is good, not american, Shodukon is real stuff. I would suggest to the several people in the group that you take them on one at a time and question whether they are real men or not, it takes a loser with penis envy to fight 6 on 1. Make an example of the biggest one if you have to. I am 6'3" 280, and my bro is 5'10" 160 (hes all muscle) and we use very similar styles and are deadly effective, so size can be varied for these arts too. You do not have to be a massive person. The quickest fight I got in, was very similar to the people you are describing, they bugged me I kicked one in the stomach so hard that he barfed and got knocked into a wall and had a concussion, they did not bother me ever again, and when they tried messing with other people I would step in and they quickly changed their habbits. I grew up having to use the martial arts I know and I know that they are effective on the street and in a no rules fight.

    Wing Tsung is good but takes years to be effective, I would suggest the red boat style, Frank Gucci, a Seal trainer uses it and trained with my teachers, Wing Tsung is the ultimate in a bar fight, it is what Bruce Lee's style of punching comes from solid, fast, and very effective. There are many lists of martial arts schools that include canada online, all you have to do is search, and I would suggest you get an ASP Defender key chain if you want pepper spray, its very small and concealable, www.selfdefenseproducts.com
  5. kingjoey

    kingjoey New Member

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    I would take up a good martial art. The Brazilian-style Jiu-jitsu is very effective. My preference is kickboxing. Learn the Thai style not the sport American version. For street use it is very effective as it is ruthless in use and doesn't frown on trickery or attrition as a means to an end. I'm 6'5" 245lbs and have engaged up to 5 opponents at a time and won. You take some hits, but the goal is to not be on the ground and to move to keep your attackers in front of you. If multiple attackers try to flank you move laterally until you can keep them in sight. With proper training you can take a tremendous number of blows to the body, but training cannot prevent one blow to the back of the head from knocking you out. If you are in serious danger in a fight (where they are looking to do more than slap you around) then make your initial strikes where they're most effective (throat, ears, groin, solar plexus, or inner side of either knee). Breaking joints is effective and is best performed by hyperextending the elbow or knee with a blow perpendicular to the joint or by using your shoulder, hip, or thigh as a leverage point. If possible attack and move past the attacker. This distances you from the danger and puts the injured guys between you and the ones still standing which provides an obstacle to their mobility and footroom in close quarter fights (ie hallways). There is plenty to learn and plenty of practice to be done. The best option is to avoid fighting if at all possible, as you are seldom going to come out unscathed. Negotiate when possible, fight if you must.
  6. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

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    Brazilian kickdancing is called Capoiera...Muay Thai kickboxing is pretty ruthless.
  7. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

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    Capoiera is useless...
  8. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Son , please excuse all the well intended advice, for a moment, and listen to an old guy who has never weighed more than 155.
    If you can avoid the confrontation, by all means, do so.
    There are no winners in a fight, only the bigger and the smaller loser. One loses teeth, the other gets cut knuckles.
    A bazillion years ago, Chuck Norris ran a little dojo in Redondo Beach, Ca.
    I was there. Studied Shotokahn Karate, for a while.
    Spent several years in 5th SF group, before that, 1st, trying to get a leg up on the other guy, and teach my motor skills to others, with "not too splendid" results.
    Been to jail, and worse, 'cause many people don't understand the pressure you are now feeling.
    Bottom line: If you can talk, walk, or run from a fight, the smart money is on doing just that.
    If none of the available options include any of the above, (1) By all means get the first lick, and (2) Since nuts, knees, and noggin all at least SOUND like they start with the same letter, pick one, kick one, and go back to "talk, walk, run"
    I know, at first reading, this sounds stupid as hell, but re-read it.
    Stay out of trouble, stay out of jail, and live large.
  9. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

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    yeah thats actually what I try to do, I don't look for trouble. my examples are all in the "last resort" category. I appreciate the advice, but don't call me son. Why do so many people on here do that?
  10. SouthernMoss

    SouthernMoss *Admin Tech Staff*

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    Calm down, FN. ;)

    First of all, I think the "son" comment was directed at the originator of this thread, which is a 16 year old.

    Second of all, I think I know these guys well enough to know that they are not using the word "son" in a derrogatory way, rather in a friendly paternal way. And since most of them are old enough to be your father, and a good number are old enough to be your grandfather, I think they have earned that right. :)

    When they call you "son", take it as a compliment. That's the way it's intended.
  11. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    No disrespect intended, FN, but for that young man in Canada, all roiled up with adolescent hormones, peer pressure, ect, life is all ahead, while for many of us, it's half, or more, past.
    I've five grandsons, all who have heard nearly the same sentiments I voiced a couple of days ago, here.
    Having done/made/experienced a lot of stupidity/stupid choices, I would choose to spend the rest of my life in a more constructive manner, helping those I encounter not to make as many poor decisions, and do as many stupid things, as did I.
    Don't know a lot about Canada, but I suspect that if 13 takes the offence, and goes 'hunting' his tormentors, he gets charged with a misdemeanor; If he does it well, and inflicts significant damage, the price may rise to felony level. That's the way it worked when I was his age, and now, where I live.
    An assault beef would cost him a lot now, and for a long time; If there's a gentler way, we all need to consider that, first. If not, then ya do whatcha gotta do, but with poise and a plan.
    Again, FN, I meant no disrespect to you, nor to the young man asking for advice.
  12. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

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    sorry about that. Being so young and in the circles I am in is tough, I can't imagine what its like being a lady in these circles. *is embarrassed now*
    yes mam somo

    I know many are old enough to be my father and all that, but I got one already, thats all. I do appreciate the sentiments and all but I like to be thought of as a peer, not jr. or tiger or something ya know?

    The young guy in Canada has not logged back in I don't think :(
    Canada seems very laid back to bad the same bs happens everywhere...
  13. gpostal

    gpostal Former Guest

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    getting back to the subject

    style of fighting means nothing ,i mean nothing , i have seen great blackbelts get treated like a child , by a bar room brawler
    and visa-versa ,

    fighting is in the heart ,while training is a certain style might increase a person confidence , when faced with a honest fighter it will mean very little

    a person is born with a talent of fighting ,or your not ,while both needs devolopment and training

    all forms of karate are based on six kicks ,and they punch and hit with the same hands a boxer uses , i studied three forms, i got my black-belt when i was ninteen , i use the same punch i perfected then today ,36 street ko's , and have two kicks i prefer ,and of course the good old fashion headbutt ,{have a lawsuit over the last one, he's still going for 150k}
  14. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Yup.
    I still suggest the gentler way.
    Talk, walk, or run; all are cheaper solutions.
  15. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

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    I don't know about that. I have seen people that are not fighters in the least take down the best of hooligans (or whatever term you use) with the right training. Its somewhat true, some people just fight better, one may have tougher skin, etc. But the training of muscle memory leads to reflex and reflex is inate ability.
  16. Sackett

    Sackett Member

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    I probably cannot offer anything that has not been mentioned above except a few things I've learned.
    1. Nothing, absolutely nothing replaces either training in a martial arts or self defense class.
    2. Training builds confidence in your abilities. I don't mean a snotty attitude either. Trained fighters don't need to prove anything. As a matter of fact, they seem calm to an outward observer and they are calm. You WILL learn your strengths and weaknesses and everyone has them. You WILL get an inner confidence. Calm confidence is a powerful deterrent, not a beligerant attitude.
    3. Keep relaxed, a stiff body is wasting energy. Again this comes with confidence in your ability. It also slows you down.
    4. Do NOT worry about the outcome or getting hit.
    5. If punches fly, let them hit your arms. They are wasting energy.
    6. If or WHEN you strike, the nose, the throat, the solar plexus(wind) are your targets.
    7. Now this is the hard part to understand. If you strike for the nose, your focus is not the nose, it the back of your opponents head. You are punching through the nose to the back of the head. It is the same with the throat or wind. Your focus will be the spine. even though your target was the Adam's apple or ribs.
    You do NOT need to draw your fist back to do this. Your fist strikes from wherever it is as fast as you can make it go, but your focus is behind the target. Your strikes will be devastating. Do not stop until your opponent has stopped.
    8. If you use your legs or knees, aim through the knee caps or drive the groin area up into the chest. What I'm saying here is DON'T stop on contact, follow through.
    What I have just described here is very violent and maybe nauseating, but this is what fighters do. Personally, I do NOT want to fight anyone. I DO NOT want to hurt anyone. Do I know how to hurt someone? YES. I hope I never have to with all my heart.
    9. Repeating #1. Nothing replaces training in either a martial arts or self defense class.
    I wish you well.
  17. SouthernMoss

    SouthernMoss *Admin Tech Staff*

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    Thanks, Sackett, and welcome to TFF! Glad you decided to share your wisdom with us. :)
  18. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

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    At SouthernMoss' side forever!
    Glad to see you at TFF, Sackett.

    We hope you will join us often and continue to post often. We have a very congenial bunch of folks here and the collective knowledge is unsurpassed elsewhere.

    Attached Files:

  19. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

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    right on dude, welcome to the party
  20. 4 eyed six shooter

    4 eyed six shooter New Member

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    You have got some good info here. Avoid a fight when possible, but fight like a mad man when you have to.
    Attitude is the one thing that will help you avoid fights. If you carry yourself tall and strong, people will think twice before messing with you. I was a LEO for 15 years and can tell you, the way you carry yourself and the way you look at people makes a big difference. I have a look that has backed off many men far larger than me and had them begging not to kick their butts. It works. If you have the reputation around school as being an easy target, it may take giving someone else a good butt kicking in front of others to change your reputation. After the fight, looking at everyone else with a crazed look in your eye and asking who is next will back the rest off. Once word gets around, the bullys will look elsewhere for an easier target. I'm not saying to go pick a fight, only that if you get in one, go full tilt crazy. Try not to injure too bad or you could end up in trouble with the law. Self defense is a proper excuse for a fight, starting one first may not be.
    My best to you, John k
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