Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Logansdad, Jun 2, 2003.
If you could only afford 3. One rifle, shotgun and/or handgun....Which 3 would they be ?
Only three - which would I choose? I would choose the following, primarily because of their manual operation. I have found through experience that a manually operated firearm is easier to clear in a jamming situation than the semi-autos.
Handgun - Ruger, Security Six, Stainless, heavy frame and heavy 4 5/8" barrel.
Rifle - Marlin mod. 336, 30-30 caliber.
Shotgun - Winchester, mod. 1200 pump.
Your Friend in Dixie,
My Colt Government Model, M1A1 and my 870 Rem Pump. If I can't do it with these, they can have me!
Rifle: FN FAL
Shotgun: Winchester M97 Trenchgun.
Rifle - .270 in a reliable bolt action.....I am partial to Browning
Shotgun - Remington 870 in 12 guage
Pistol - .22 LR auto......any reliable brand
With these three I can shoot just about any game animal in N. America.......'cept maybe moose. The 12 guage can also be useful for home defense.
12 guage 870
45 gov model
Rem nylon 66, 22 LR
I would have to say 870 as well, but a used older one
hand gun: 1911 style .357 sig with a full frame and fully ramped barrel
Rifle: IA .338 lapua magnum bolt gun with the mcmillin stock
Handgun .......Beretta 96 FS (.40S&W)
Rifle ......Springfield M1A1 (mil-spec)
Shotgun ......Remington 870
tony have you ever shot a beretta 92 or 96? Or own one already, I would suggest not getting one, the barrel floats bad, but they are still good reliable guns, just not as acurate as they should and could be.
All three are reliable and accurate.
Handgun: 1911A1 5" Barrel;
Rifle: Browning BLR Lightening .30-06;
Shotgun: Remington 870 12 gauge.
skip the shotgun, have 2 pistols instead
you can CARRY a (lw, compact) rifle and 2 (small, lw) pistols, but you can't carry 2 longarms worth a hoot. An AR 15 can be swapped out to a dozen calibers, with different upper receiver groups, to include have a dozen handgun calibers, the .30 AK rd, 300 Whisper, 50AE, and .50 bmg (bolt action top) A .22lr conversion does not require a change of the 223 upper receiver group, just the bolt.
An alloy compact version of the 1911 can likewise fire a dozen calibers, and can even be front pocket accessed (but strapped to the leg sort of holster). A M21 Beretta .22 makes a fine Kit gun for small game, and can be ccw'd, even with a truly effective sound suppressor on it. The Total length of this package is no longer than a Beretta 9mm (ie, 9") The can does need a couple of shots of WD--40 (to reduce corrosion) and a shot of water if you want max effectiveness of the "can", tho.
Yeah, all fine and good suryevor, but the question asked was specific and did not mention or ask for additions/deletions/changes/or options.
Change is good and options and opinions are a dime a dozen, it's just too bad that they do not count for anything when responding to a selectively specific question.
says u. U have no idea who all reads
the stuff, or what they have in mind. The shotgun is essentially a toy, for snobs to fire at birds on the wing. It can't do the job of either the rifle or the pistol, and time and money spent on it is just time and money that can't be spent on the other two, more useful types of guns, nor on the (far more likely to be needed) hand to hand training. You aint even likely to have the longarm when you need it in the home,much less in the (4x as likely) scenario away from home. So why bother to even own a shotgun,much less practice enough to be any good with it, hmm? NO reason, really,other than lame excuses as to why you dont practice enough with handgun and rifle.
Surveyor, your *opinion* is that shotguns are not "worthy" of your consideration. You're neglecting some important considerations, however.
1> A shotgun loaded with birdshot is less likely to penetrate drywall than pistol or rifle rounds, with the exception of some of the newer frangible ammunition. Their stopping power, however, is as yet unproven in real-world situations. The few proven frangible rounds, such as MagSafe and Glaser Safety Slugs act as small-gauge shotguns. Wouldn't more mass delivered downrange be better?
2> A shotgun provides an intimidation factor that a handgun or a rifle does not provide. The scariest sound in the world to a burglar is the sound of a pump-action shotgun chambering a round. This quite often ends the encounter before it becomes deadly.
3> Someone invading your home that comes face-to-face with the bore of a 12ga. has much more fear struck in his/her heart than coming face-to-face with your handgun or rifle.
4> If you have to shoot an intruder with a shotgun, you have a much better defense if you have to go to court over "wrongful death." The prosecuting attorney can and will try to make you out to be a bloodthirsty savage, intent upon killing, no matter what the provocation. If you have a shotgun, you have a better chance of defending yourself by using a "bird gun" than a high-power rifle or a handgun. Especially a handgun loaded with hollow points, which the prosecutor will try to paint as 'vicious ammo, causing horrific wounds' as indication of your bloodthirsty nature.
The objective in home-defense is not to kill the intruder, but to make them stop the intrusion, hopefully by surrendering, so you may turn them over to the authorities. Only if they continue being a threat to you and your family should you kill them. Therefore, rifles and handguns do not have the same value in home defense as a shotgun does.
I agree that there are lots of technical reasons why the shotgun isn't the "ideal" weapon in many cases. However, you're simply spouting opinion, not fact, when you call it a toy. There's some very good reasons why the military STILL, to this day, issues shotguns to many servicemen. Why Gunsite teaches the shotgun for close-quarters tactics. The shotgun has some very serious, definite roles in self-defense.
u ASSUME some pretty silly stuff.
one is that I am going to MISS when I fire. Another is that you are going to HAVE any longarm in the home, when you need it, much less when away from home. No 7 lb, 40" long gun is anything LIKE as fast to handle or hit with, at the typical sub 10 ft distances in the home, as is a 2 lb, 7" pistol. When holding a kid, phone, light, etc, a longarm sucks. Ditto when having to open doors, look behind clothes hanging in a closet, under a bed, etc. You assume adequate practice with such things with the shotgun, which is almost never the case. you assume that guys are serious enough to risk being shot by a "mere" 45 Super Mag safe, but get scared by the NOISE of a shotgun. a lot of guys don't KNOW what a pump action sounds like, and those who do know that you are a fool for making such a noise, and have one round less ready to fire.
surveyor, there are very few people that DON'T know that the sound means trouble for them.
Obviously you are uber-l337 with your handgun. Congratulations.
Also, just as obvious, you misread my post. I'm assuming you KILL the intruder when they haul you in court. "Wrongful death" doesn't assume you miss.
Let's just agree to disagree. I'm obviously not buying into your "all shotguns are toys" theory and you're not going to be convinced by me otherwise.
Yep, I'm with you JohnK3. I'll take a little ole 12 guage with bird shot any day. I would also tell our friend here that mine is not 40" long. It is 24" long. As you alluded to, if your hiding under my bed, it will absolutely ruin your day when that 12 guage with lite gets put in your face. Also, I love the hide in the closet idea. I can just imagine someone there while I peel back each hanger until I get to the prize. Everyone has opinions and they are entitled to them. Me, I'll take a 12 guage to a gun fight anytime!
Oh, by the way, how many firefights y'all been in? Sounds like you are real experienced in these here gunfighting episodes!
then it's ILLEGAL. The 1934 firearms
act says that all shotguns MUST be 26 1/4" long and must have barrels at least 18" long. Bird shot is easily proven to not penetrate both a heavy winter coat, and the sternum, at more than a very few feet from the muzzle, from such short barrels.
the POINT is, for the ignorant, that you wont HAVE the shotgun as you take out the garbage or the pets, mow the grass, answer the door, etc, etc. So it's bs to talk about how "effective" it is. If you have to run and get it, you will survive only by pure luck. Only luck prevents the attacker from using a $50 Jennings .22 to put 8 rds into your fleeing carcass, in 2 seconds flat, while you cover a lousy 20 ft. Like I said, u ASSUME many things that just aint so.
Twern't me that "said" anything suryevor, it was the author of the post; and just FYI he asked:
. Guess his question leaves a lot to be interpreted, huh??? Or didn't you even read the question???
Yep, suryevor - you're right. 100% correct. Ain't no body gonna argue with you on any subject cause U know it all and are not afraid to let anyone know it.
I can tell right off your condescending attitude and know-it-all philosophy gonna go a long way around here.
Why don't you just chill out a little, kick back and kinda get a flavor of the board rather than come in and try to impress us with your rhetoric and holier-than-thou writings.
You are dealing with a group here that is the epitome of experience and knowledge, and some of the the best informed, and best equipped people on the internet, bar none. Why don't you try to join us rather than malign us?
You are welcome to your opinion, as are all who come here. We just don't need it pushed down our throats every time you have something to say.
Whadd'ya say, the ball's now in your court.
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