improoving accuracy

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by matty, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. matty

    matty New Member

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    :rolleyes: i just started reloading about 200 rounds ago (newbie), and am looking at improving the accuracy now. before it was just so me, the wife, and some friends could go plink, but now i want to start getting into some long range stuff.

    i am shooting a remington model 700 30-06 with a simmons pro 50 2.5-10 power scope. the barrel is free floating and the scope is completely lock-tighted down. i use a Harris bipod and shoot from the prone position.

    i am using 45grs of IMR 3031 powder with a Speer 165gr boat tail spitzer point loaded in Remington brass with a CCI primer. i use a Lee "Safty Powder Scale", you know, the one you have to wait for to balance, and i try to be as accurate as i can with it. Would it be worth it to upgrade to a digital scale and take some of the "guess work" out of it?

    or should i get a different caliber rifle for the long range stuff? i was thinking like a 7MM Rem Mag or a 300 Win Mag.

    thanks :)
  2. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    What do you mean by "long range"? Knowing what you mean by that can determine your best set up. Long range shooting is usually done with a fairly heavy caliber and heavy bullets.

    In looking at the new Speer manual, they do not even recommend 3031 for their 165gr SBT.

    Let us know.
  3. matty

    matty New Member

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    i am using IMR 3031 because in my Lyman manual, 47th edition, page 280, it lists a 165 gr. SPBT bullet. it makes no mention of bullet brand, just the type and weight.

    i am thinking of making 600 yard shots. where i hunt at here in oregon (the high desert), it is fairly flat and open, and the game can see you coming.

    im thinking of a 7 mag or 300 mag.

    what do you think?
  4. verdejt

    verdejt New Member

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    Matty, yes definitely dump the safety scale. I had one and to me it wasn't very accurate. I use the Dillon electronic scale and it works great. As far as loads I haven't started reloading for my .308 yet. I was recommended to use IMR 4895.
  5. matty

    matty New Member

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    thanks Verdejt,

    i think i will go with a 308. everyone i have talked to says it's a good round for what i want, but ironicaly noone has one that i can shoot. they have all used a "friend's" gun.

    do you have any recomedations on brand or style?

    i also used up the last of my imr 3031 today. a 45gr load is giving me a 4" group at about 420yds. i think it is just fine for my '06. i still haven't recieved my 30-30 dies yet, so i think i will proboly pick a different powder for that gun.

    and i am deffinently gonna get me an electronic scale here before long. i just need to justify it with my wife like how i justify buying a new gun. i'll just hide it and never let her see it, or the time tested, "i'm borrowing it from Joe Blow" seems to work good.

    hey, thanks for your help :)

    later.
  6. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Dillon

    3031 is probably the most recommended powder for the 30-30. Have you ever chronographed your load for the 30-06?

    How about posting up a target since that is a sub-minute of angle load. Would really like to see a 420 yard target please! What reloading manual did you get this load from?
  7. matty

    matty New Member

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    i dont know if i told you guys but i am fairly new at reloading and everything sofar has just kind of been experimenting on my half. i have no electronic scale, or chronograph. i got into this as a hobby and a way to do more shooting. my total investment so far with powder and dies is about 185$ no joke, i got a lee aniversary reloading kit for 67$ off of midway.com!

    as for my target, it is a piece of plate steel about an inch thick i got from outside of a recycling dumpster (it was proboly too heavy to throw in there for whoever had it) and i use a lymans 47th edition reloading manual, it's the only one i own right now. i have so little brass that i don't seperate it by brand or lot. i hate to run a guilt trip here, but i realy don't see a need for some of that fancy stuff for me right now. :eek:

    i'll have to borrow a digicam to get you guys some picks, my wife and electric things don't go together :D lol. she broke the microwave, xbox, and both my cb in the jeep and the handheld all in about 2 weeks time. and all without throwing, droping, or spilling anything on them. right now she costs me more than she brings in $ wise a month, but oh how i do love her.

    also, what is a 'sub-minute of angle load'? i have never heard of this before.

    honestly,as long as my loads are safe and accureate, i don't care much about anything else with them. :eek:

    later
  8. bill k

    bill k New Member

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    1 MOA is a 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inch at 200, so a sub moa at 400 yards will be 4 inches. Very very hard to do unless extremley skilled and having ideal conditions. A puff of wind at 200 yards will move your bullet quite a bit.
    As far as a long range caliber I'm a 30 cal or 33 cal fan. The heavier bullets in the 200 grain range buck the wind currents better.
    A 30-06 will do the long range stuff if the shooter has the ability. I don't remember the Viet Nam snipers name but he shot a 30-06. Help me out guys with his name.
    I shoot a 300 Ultra mag for long distance. It does quite well at 4 or 5 hundred yards, I've had a couple of three inch 3 shot groups, but realistically if I stay under 9 inches I'm estatic.
    The other advantage of the bigger mags is the flatter trajectory.
    In closing I don't believe it's a good idea to take a shot on game at that distance +400 yards. Too much stuff can go wrong.
    If it's a jackrabbit or ground squirrel that's another story.
    Bill
    PS I don't like digital scales, had one got rid of it and went back to my RCBS 5-0-5 scale
  9. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Yes and no on the 30-06 at 600 yards. Mostly NO!

    Carlos Hathcock was a highly decorated and admired Marine sniper in Nam. When he was not using his 50 BMG mounted on a tripod with a 4x scope he mounted, it was a 300 Winchester Mag. He has the longest recorded shot of 2700 mtrs on a walking VC using the tripod mounted 50. One shot, one kill!

    Most snipers I knew used the 300 Winchester Mag. Don't know of one that used a 30-06 or a 308.

    Now, let's get to this 308 at 600 yards. First of all, unless you are an extremely proficient rifleman with many years of practice, I would not advocate any shot at this range. Just plain foolish and if you get lucky, maybe the gods will be with you. More than likely you will never hit your target.

    A top load with a 308 and 180 gr bullet will give you about 2700 fps. With a 100 yard zero, the bullet will drop 101" at 600 yards, yes, that is almost 10 FEET!. Put those in your calculator and guess at your holdover. Not to mention a cross wind of 10mph at 500 yards and you miss by a country mile! You had best be very good, or move to a 300 Winchester Mag as an alternative.

    Since you are a newbie reloader, I wonder how you will reach the ballistics you need to be proficient. I do not want to sound like I'm putting you down, but you are talking precision where there is none shown.
  10. bill k

    bill k New Member

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    The rifle I was refering to is the M-21 30-06 sniper rifle used by the Army in WWII, Korea, and the early years of Viet Nam, till the late 60's.
    Bill
  11. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    When I was growing up we sighted the 30-06s in at 4" high at 400yds with a 6 o'clock hold. That put us on out to about 500 yards. Sierra 180gr boattail soft point in front of 54.5gr 4350.

    Hunting Mule Deer in the high desert of central Nevada, that was a given. I made many a shot at 300 to 400 yards and a few at 450 or so. I never had to trail a deer more than yards and never had a wounded one get away.

    I was shooting close to 500 rounds a week, between practice and competition. Since that happy time, I've gotten older, I no longer compete, somebody stole my eyes one night and replaced them with different ones, and I have trouble finding the barn, much less shooting it. :D

    Pops
  12. bill k

    bill k New Member

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    Shooting 500 rounds a week will definitly give you the ability to make the 4 and 500 yard shot. When I was in college I was invited on a deer hunt outside of Elko, NV. I was told to sight in for long range. I was from California so I did, I sighted in for 200 yards.
    Opps, me make a big mistake. As Pops mentioned he had a 4 inch drop at 500 yards, what's the drop at 500 yards when your zero is 200? A WHOLE BUNCH!
    I left with venison but only because a small buck was dumb enough to let me sneak up on him. He stood there and watched me while I crawled through the high timber of the Nevada desert. You know the 6" high sage brush.
    Bill
  13. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    Yup, outside of Elko. East Humbolt Range and Ruby Range. Lots of open, but there were deer all over the place up there in those days. We used to sit on the knobs and look over the saddles to watch deer flow through at the rate of several hundred a day. I had 87 deer on my ticket when we moved to Oregon in '55. We went back to Nevada to hunt that Fall and I dropped 13 more. Three on my tags, three on Dad's tags and 7 on Mom's tags. We only had one day to hunt and one day to pack out, so I was free to fill tags as I saw them. Then we qualified to hunt in Oregon and I dropped 3 more. I was REALLY spoiled, by the time I was 16.

    Good memories.

    Pops
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