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[Information?] Bunney, London antique gun

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by Inspiron, Jun 13, 2008.

  1. jjmitchell60

    jjmitchell60 Active Member

    Joined:
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    Raised in Buzzard Roost near Frog Town in hillls o
    No problem with the writing. Just excuse my spelling, I have lots of nerve damage to hands and arms. Brain tells hands what to do, hands tell brain that they do what tey want! Comes from a bad wreck on my HD that forced me to learn to walk and do many othr things again at the age of 31 so me 17 years ago.

    As to what teh colonists were armed with, supriseingly it was the british who armed them so it was the first pattern brown bess! During what we call teh Frenck and Indian War, I believe the British call it by anotehrname, the british shipped thousands of brown besses to the colonies to hand out to militias and natives that were loyal to the Brits. When teh Brits marched on lexington in April of 1774, they were marching to confiscate a cache of Brown besses and powder that had been issued to teh Mass. militia back in the 1750s and 60s. The brits knew that war was a brewing and like Hitler (hate to use that SOB as an example) they knew that the populance neded to be disarmed to crush the up coming rebellion. So the first pattern brown bess was one onf the long arms used a lot. By the way, teh miliria or Minitmen were actually short of balls to shoot so all night before the brits marched on Lexington, the colonists wives sat up melying down pewterplates to make pewter musket balls, jus a little know fact many do not know. They also use rusty nails, glass, rocks, and anything they could drop down te barrel at the siege of Boston. The British Surgeons actually said that the colonists shooting such things set up infection in teh wounded and infection killed more than actual bullets, but getting off subject there. Anotehr long arm that was used was the duth fowlers from the late 1600s and early 1700s. The dutch flooded teh colonies with them to trade to natives and trade to colonists as well. anotehr arm that was present was the early French military musket which looked a lot like teh Dutch Fowler and actually can be concidered a cousin to teh Dutch Fowler. many an English Dog Eared flint lock, a fore runner of the Brown bess was used being it came over with many of the colonists. Also teh German short Jaeger (sp) rifle was used in some quanities buit the new long rifles made here in teh colonies, most in PA, mountains of VA, southern mountaisn of NC and SC were used by different colonial militias although they wee hard to load. These long rifleswith rifled barrels were mostly used as sniper guns on the sides of the battle because the colonists learned early on that if the British Commanders were taken from teh battle, the british soldiers went into a state of confusion for the most part. This sniping was a HUGE matyterof disagreement between the 2 armies, teh Britoish thought it very un-civilized to shoot at officers first, they felt that officers were needed to keep the troops in form less the battle fiel;d be a form of mass confusion! so you had the colonial invented long rifle rifled flit lok used as well. Another arm that wa sused was teh 1763 French Charleville 69 cal. smooth bore musket that the King of france sent over by teh thousands as aid before actual men and ships wee sent. Whane the french Army entered the fray, some of the neer 1777 charleville muskets were used but very few, most of the fremch troops still were issued the 1763 Charleville. Anotehr gun used was the Spanish made guns. These guns were of caliber from 62 caliber clear up to 72 caliber. They were not as many as otehrs but still used. One long arm that has been over loked is what wecalled the Freedome Musket. It was made very closely in lookd to the Brown Bess but it was in a full .80 caliber! anotehr Broitish gun tat the colonists used was teh 65 caliber officers musket to some degree.
    In a list here are the guns used:
    Brown bess first pattern 75 caliber smooth bore
    British Officers musket or carbine 65 caliber smoothe bore
    early british dog lock muskets in 72 to 75 caliber smooth bore
    French 1763 Charelivilles in 69 caliber smooth bore
    Early fremch miliary muskets in 62 caliber smoth bore
    both brotish and frence fowlers and/or trade muskets in 54 all the way to 75 smooth bore calibers
    Dutch fowlers in a variety of calibers all smooth bore with smallst being around 50 cal to as big as 75 cal smooth bore
    Spanish trade arms in smooth bore from 32 cal smooth bore to as big as65 cal smooth bore
    German Jaeger rifled short rifles in calibers usually lare with 69-72 rifled being teh norm.
    The Colonila Freedome musket in 80cal smooth bore
    The colonila invnted rifled long rifles in calibers from 20 caliber to as large as 70+ caliber rifled
    Also the German Hussens brougt over the german muskets that they wee armed with, have not read any reference material as to nail down caliber.

    IN short, the british used the Bess mostly as did the Colonials BUT there were firearms of all calibers, from several different countries including Colonial mamufacture, and if it shot a projectile; chances are it was used in the fray some where!!!!

    I have LOTS of reference material and books on teh American revolution being I re-enact it. I will dig out some of the better title and pas them titles on so you can maybe find them in the UK through inter Library Loan program if you hav eone inthe US. I know we do here in the states. Like I said earlier, I found it very interesting that some of the best known and beter established hand gun makers in teh 18th century were located in Ireland, mostly in the Dublin area. Many of the English officers horse pistols you see here in the states were made in and around Dublin Ireland.
  2. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    Many thanks for taking the time to write that jj, quite the eye opener. Don't worry about spellinks. I'd rather read the facts spelt wrong that a load of rubbish written to perfection. By the way, I have fallen of a few motorcycles myself. When I was a young m/cycle courier in London we used to say 'If you don't fall of occasionally your not trying hard enough'. We were paid by the job. More jobs = More money. See the problem there?

    And another thing. I think I am right in saying loyalists in the rebellion went north, into Canada. They should have gone south and left the frozen waste to the rebels. Then I could go live in Arizona in the sunshine instead of Ottowa in the snow.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2008
  3. jjmitchell60

    jjmitchell60 Active Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Raised in Buzzard Roost near Frog Town in hillls o
    Sure glad you could read it, I tried and truely found out how bad my spelling was. Bad days and good days. Good days I can walk and do things like this, bad days I am bed ridden. That wreck is what kept me from Graduate School, was accepted in the 2 nearest me inany of my 3 diciplines: Math, Physice, and early American History. had plans on getting a PHd in History first, then math, and finally physics but as the saying goes," the best laid plans of mice and men ..." well it fit me to a tee! I will go through my post and do some spelling check as well as fixing here maybe tonight. I am sure you get the jest though, seems the British armed their foes with teh same arms they were using to quell the Rebellion as is with many a british Colonial rebellion all over the globe. It was once said that the sun NEVER set on the British Empire and in the UKs heyday, that was so very true with the UK having colonies all over the world and on every continent!

    As to sending the Broitish NBorth to Canada, if not for the Spanish/french having a strong foot hold south, I say tat would have been an option. With the British heading to thenorth as it were, it did one thing, it stopped the United States from EVER invading Canada. we tried many times in the War of 1812 but neevr had any success. The British took Canada in the F&I war (or as the Brits call it the 7 years war) but we colonists could never take Ccanada for some reason. Other than taking land from Mexico, we actually bought most of the United states from the French and the Russians! Had it not been for the British and otehr European monarchies fighting so hard to stop Napoleon(sp), we would not have been able to buy the Lousiania Territory. I wrote a Senior Thesis on that subject to get my degree in History. It was mostly by pure blind luck of being in the right place at the right time that we were able to buy the Lousinia Territory. Many think it was a strategic coup but in fact it was pure luck! Funny how much of the world has been influenced by the British and their policy of colonialization.
  4. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    Indeed jj, it's true. That such a small island as this could have done so much is quite something. But that's ancient history, we don't have any real influence on the world of today, do we?

    I don't have a degree in history as you do, but do have a suggestion. I have always believed that Britain has benefited from its racial and cultural mix. It's a mix that goes back beyond the Romans two thousand years ago and continues today.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2008
  5. Yup, in the words of the famous British military toast of the period: "And here's to bloody wars and sickly seasons." ;) Cynical perhaps, but service in His Majesty's military in the 18th century was by no means a picnic. Promotion was slow and the pay abysmal. I understand things are a wee bit better these days. ;)
  6. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    So much better Pistol. Four more of our soldiers killed today in Afghanistan, including a female intel officer. And our government pays them the same as the traffic wardens. So thats all right then. :mad:
  7. No, it will never be "all right," my friend. Soldier pay is somewhat better for US troops, as you know, but even for them it is still well below what they deserve to be paid for the sacrifices they are called upon to make on behalf of the society they protect with their very lives. "Oh it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, and throw him out, the brute . . ." :(
  8. jjmitchell60

    jjmitchell60 Active Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,540
    Location:
    Raised in Buzzard Roost near Frog Town in hillls o
    Know full well the pay situation in todays military and in it almost 30 years ago. In 79 I joined the US Navy at a grand sum of $719 I beliegve a month and an estra $125 I think for BAQ being I nwas married. My 221 year old has been woirking on getting his weight downso as to join the US Army (he was a front lineman on the high school football team) and he is hoping on getting in this week or by the endof teh month at least. His entry pay is nothing to brag about BUT in an area (here in Kentucky) where there are NO jobs, at least he will be working as well as getting experience. Back in teh American Revolution, the troops were happy tpo get a slice of faat back, a 1/4 lb of grain, and a fire per day. many days went by when there was none of the 3 and it ws during the winter. Many had their families with them while on march, as many as 12 people slept in those VERY small tents as well. A soldiers life is a poor one indeed as well as a thankless one with exceptions of the few hoildays celebrating the armed services.

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