"Instructional People"

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by Crpdeth, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. user

    user Active Member

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    Good point. I was raised around people who assumed the submissive role as part of a "management technique". I developed a tendency to avoid getting sucked into that kind of relationship because of the deception and manipulation that it entails. As a result, I have absolutely no patience with people who try to engage me in what you describe as "(A/a)".

    Good way to illustrate the relationship dynamics. Did you invent that?
  2. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    User, I honestly think you are missing (purposely overlooking?) something that I have continuously reiterated in this thread. I'm not referring to people who hand out instructions upon being paid to do so, you keep coming back to your profession...Indeed I would EXPECT you to be instructional in your line of work, just as I would be if I noticed Crabgrass taking over one of my clients lawns, that's what we are paid for...Again, I am expressing my growing nausea regarding those who, can not, or will not differentiate the work place from their life with family and friends.


    Interesting...Just out of sheer curiosity, would you elaborate on how you feel that you would be deceived and manipulated by assuming a more submissive role?


    Crpdeth
  3. BillP

    BillP New Member

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    I wish I could take credit for it but I can't. I particularly like the concept of "super adult" SA. It gives you a way to illustrate a "superordinate" role. That's important because then the other person is cast in a "subordinate" role rather than a submissive one. A lot has to do with culture, in many an A/a dynamic is accepted but for us it smacks of an A/C dynamic and when you treat an adult as a child you are headed for trouble.

    As you have discovered an adult who voluntarily assumes the "a" role in a relationship with another adult is trying to create a a/A dynamic which is by it's very nature manipulative. The term often heard is "sucking up". On the other hand, casting the other in the SA role can be straightforward. Acknowledge the other's age or experience and you give him permission to take a leadership position without making him ultimately responsible for the outcome. You have no doubt found that if someone comes to you in your professional capacity in an A/SA dynamic he still accepts ultimate responsibility for the outcome. If he comes to you in an a/A dynamic what he really wants is a C/A dynamic which means that you are expected to make everything right.
  4. user

    user Active Member

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    Part of my thinking is that we get the line of work our own peculiar neuroses program us for. I have to apologize to people fairly often for "getting preachy". It's not just about work. I have the work I do because of my confrontational and aggressive personality (or the one I had twenty years ago, at least) as well as my superior attention to detail and ability to remember huge quantities of information, and my feeling that I am competent to tell you what you ought to be doing. I have learned not to place an implied, "you dummy" on the end of every sentence. Jesus has taught me that any idiot can be saved, and my abilities aren't worth spit unless I'm doing love.


    Sure, I was raised by women who were all victims of horrible sexual abuse that lasted for years. They had learned to "manage" the men in their lives, and since they married men whom they could fall in love with (i.e., abusive alcoholics), their principal management technique was the objectively observable submission-meekness role, while their only strength against such men was their ability to deceive and manipulate. Their other major tools were access to sexual gratification and access to prepared food. Theirs was a culture based on shame, fear, and guilt. The submissive role they assumed was a lot like the "undocumented immigrant's" unarmed invasion. If the people coming over the Arizona border were armed, it would be clearer what they're up to, and what we should do about it. But their assumption of a subordinate role of weakness disarms us in our resolve to repel invaders.

    Thing about me, though, is that I thought that was normal until I got much older - I didn't know those people were crazy. But I'd learned to manage THEM, which is why I use intellect and argument to get what I want and to beat other people down. Like I said, I'm getting better. Life is a process, not a goal.
  5. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    And after saying this, you still dont realize that in having to learn not to "place an implied you dummy" at the end of a sentance, that you are already 'speaking down' to your friends/family?

    Why "get preachy" to start with? If people want to be preached at, they go to church and if they want your opinions they will ask you for them.

    Crpdeth
  6. user

    user Active Member

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    I had some response to this, but encountered a problem posting the response, and by the time I'd gotten back to it, it was gone. And now I have no idea what I was going to say. Must have been important.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2008
  7. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    I'm sure it'll come to you...We have nothing but time. :D


    Crpdeth
  8. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    A little more than a year has passed since the start of this thread and I have to re-visit it because things are working out really nicely.

    I suppose the only real thing I have done differently is to become more vocal, still always in a light hearted, joking manner, but instead of waiting until I've "had enough" or allowing things to "bottle up" I will simply reply to each and every "instructional comment" negatively.... For example, while helping my friend load something into a truck several months ago, as I approached the truck, he says "Okay now set your end on the tailgate and jump into the truck bed" I just laughed and responded "Hey %!#&!, I got this end, you just worry about your end or you can have 'em both!" .

    Somehow, I think this constant response has made them realize how often they bark orders and also perhaps get the idea that it is growing old.

    Anyway, I am proud to say that it is working well, because these guys mean a lot to me.

    :)
  9. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    Sorry to dredge up such a musty old thread, but felt the need, because I really feel a loss that was way too anticipated and predicted... Almost 6 1/2 years have passed since the introduction of this problem and I find that I have completely distanced myself from these two men... A damn shame is what it is. I have been married to my best friend for well over 1 1/2 years and she has never even met one of the Instructional People talked about in this thread, the other one, she has spoken with once... I bring this back up only to hopefully create a moment for my friends here to reflect on their own personalities... Ironically, I find myself occasionally barking opinions to my beautiful wife, only to back off and apologize, stating "I don't want to become one of those Instructional People". She laughs and say's that she never minds, but I wonder...

    I guess the bottom line is that some of us need to learn to bite our tongue and let our friends and family do the simple things their way and shut the hell up before we run some really good people out of our lives...
  10. jstgsn

    jstgsn Well-Known Member

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    Someone once told me, if you loan $20 to a good friend, and never see them again, it was worth it.

    Seems to me as we get older and our lives change, we tend to inch our way toward the most comfortable spot we can find.
    Crpdeth likes this.
  11. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    I like this a lot... I think it sums this topic up perfectly.

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