Ishapore MkIIIs in .308...anybody have one?

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by polishshooter, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    I missed out on the 1960s Ishapore Enfield MkIII 2A .308s the last time they were available and kicked myself for years, and now AIM is advertising "the last ones available" for $169.99, and lo and behold I happen to have some extra money now (You REALLY understand MLK's "Free at Last...Free at Last...Thank God Almighty Free at Last!" when your YOUNGEST graduates from college!:p ) (Last Saturday, Ball State U., and in "only" 4 1/2 years!:D :D :D )

    I'm on vacation this week, and tomorrow my wife and I are spending the night in Cincinnatti, dinner cruise on the Ohio, so there just MIGHT be a little detour to Lebanon (Ohio, not Beirut!) to look at one or two of them.


    Does anybody know about them or how they shoot? One guy is advertising one on GB and he is claiming they are ".308 NATO and NOT .308 Winchester" (????) I think he may be screwing them up with the old Spanish 93s in .308 Cetme????

    Are they safe to shoot with milsurp .308, as well as commercial .308 Win? Are they CHAMBERED for .308, or do they have inserts?


    I just might be owning at least one by this time tomorrow!:cool:

    Here is the link: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Enf-2A__Enfield_2A_.308_NATO_7.62x51_Rifles.html
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2006
  2. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Well how about that? There IS a difference! Good thing I checked BEFORE I blew myself or a good Enfield to smithereens!

    http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.asp

    I didn't know that.

    And that leads to another stupid question...does the M1A handle .308 Winchester?

    Well, at least I won't have to spring for dies right away, and I can stock up on cheap milsurp NATO stuff until I buy some dies....if of course I BUY the rifle...


    The good thing about AIM is you don't have to order in advance, you can walk in, and they will let you look at three rifles so you can pick the best of the bunch without charging extra....

    And that article explained the 1916 Spanish Mauser too...(I used to own one but NEVER fired it because I heard of the blow ups, but it was explained to me as CETME vs. NATO, not NATO vs. .308 Winchester....) now I kinda wish I had held on to that one Mauser....
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  3. Now Polish, you know, deep down in your heart of hearts, that anything with the Mauser name on it is a high quality design. :D I just knew you would come around eventually. ;) Classic still has German-built, rearsenaled 98Ks available, you know. :rolleyes:
  4. mrmeval

    mrmeval New Member

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    The Ishapore Enfield 2A and 2A1 shoot very well doing under 3moa with iron sights, I am a poor shot so it's probably much better than that. The magazine holds 12 rounds of 7.62 Nato ammo. If you want a field gun I highly recommend preserving the hardware and wood by purchasing an Advanced Technology stock for it, damn fine stock whick points better than the original. This is not an Enfield MkIII, it has a receiver specially built for the 7.62 Nato round but it does use some MkIII parts. I intend to put the Advanced Technology stock and a Mojo sight on mine at some point. I want it to be a shooter but want to be able to return it to it's original military configuration if I want.
  5. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    They are good guns well worth the money and make sure you pay the 10 dollars for the hand select.
    BTW Keep in mind it is .308 and not the great and well made .303British:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p:D
  6. Cork

    Cork New Member

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    As you know the Nato chamber is popular as 7.62Nato ammo for target shooting is available. 303 British is almost always commerical ammo and more expensive. I have not encountered anyone who did not like their 2A in 7.62 nato. When it comes to the 308win vs 7.62 nato safety factor it is every person's risk tolerance. Low serial number springfields have been used for decades without a problem, FR8's, etc. If I intended to hunt with it I would load my own 308 win and not make them too hot! Just my 2 cents.
    Cork
  7. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Cork, do you fire standard .308 Win through yours?

    I'm going to stay with the NATO since it is still pretty plentiful, but to start handloading I'm just about going to have to buy unfired case, since I don't own another rifle in .308W...unless eoither US surplus Nato or once-fired military is available, but i haven't seen any yet at shows....

    I mean, I'm not a FOOL, but that action LOOKS pretty beefy, and it it supposed to be 1960s metallurgy steel designed for higher pressures, you'd THINK another 6000 ft/lbs or so wouldn't hurt it, but yeah, "famous last words....":p


    But supposedly guys claim they have fired .308Win from their 1916 Spanish small ring Mausers without problems, and THOSE should be softer if anything....
  8. richyoung

    richyoung New Member

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    Military brass is thicker than civllian brass, so "7.62 NATO" brass is thicker than ".308 Winchester" brass, just as "M2 Ball" brass is thicker than commercial "30-06" brass. If using military brass for reloading, loads must be reduced, because the thicker brass has less internal volume - hey, that extra brass has to go somewhere! Also, a "7.62 NATO" chamber is larger than a ".308 Win" chamber, to allow dirty, dented, ammunition to chamber in a hot, foulded chamber. This leads to excessive case stretching, but the military doesn't care because:
    1. They don't pick up the brass and reload it, so case life is not an issue.
    2. They really need the weapon involved to chamber and go boom, rather than jam.
    3. Many military firearms have floating firing pins, like the M1 Garand and M-14, and the extra-generous chamber reduces the chance of a "slam-fire" on chambering the round before hte bolt locks.
    4. Military cases have THICKER BRASS (remember?), and so are less likely to suffer a rupture or case head separation for the ONE TIME they are fired.

    Now, take a suplus 1916 Mauser or SMLE, perhaps with a chamber at the maximum end of "field reject" headspace, stuff a hot reload generated with "308" data into a 7.62 military case ("they're the same, right?") that has been full-length resized 5-6 times to the minimum dimensions without annealing after firing in that same high headspace chamber, and perhaps loaded with a .311 bullet intended for .303 British ("its close enough, right?") instead of a .308 bullet, and...*BOOM*.

    No ONE thing did it in, it was a combination of little things.
  9. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Yeah, that makes sense, and I was harking back to my IPSC days when "once fired" Milsurp WCC .45 brass was worth it's weight in gold, I have some I reloaded 25 or 30 times, maybe more. with just an occasioanal trimming, while commercial brass was lucky to last half that....I still have a couple of hundred "fresh" WCC cases somewhere still needing the primer pocket reamed, along with HUNDREDS of my "used ones...."


    But then pistol ammo is a different breed than rifle....
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