It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ( 1 2 )

Discussion in 'Informational & Technical Archives' started by ruffitt, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt *TFF Admin Staff* In Heaven Now

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    2,879
    Location:
    Sparta, MI / Now In Heaven Also
    loader44
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 134
    (2/10/02 10:50:23 pm)
    | Edit | Del All It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, it finaly happened. My reloading press my father left me broke tonight. It only had about 25000rds through it. I thought it would at least last to 30000rds before I needed to retire it.

    Guess I will have to order another one tommarrow. Wife won't be very happy.

    loader44.

    ysacres
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 113
    (2/10/02 11:23:58 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bummer dude
    What brand ya gonna replace it with??
    25000, me think you (your father) gots your money's worth outa that one.

    It's unwise to pay too much...but it's worse to pay too little.

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1327
    (2/10/02 11:53:26 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Apparantly you don't own a Dillon press, because you would know that Mike Dillon has a no Bull shit warranty for as long as you had the press and it doesn't matter if your dad once owned it.

    Tell Dillon what's wrong with it and they will send parts to fix it. What could be more simpler than that.

    This should also strongly hint that your next press should be a Dillon. They can start you out with an AT 500 for as little as $199.00 and this press can be up graded a piece at a time to a full blown RL 550, the creme dela creme of reloading presses.

    Gunguy

    BlackGun
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2993
    (2/11/02 9:18:34 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Eric what kind of press doyou presently have? Can it be fixed?
    Tread On Me, But, Leave My DONUT Alone! !


    BlackGUN

    loader44
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 135
    (2/11/02 4:24:49 pm)
    | Edit | Del It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It is a Lee Turret press, I do my 45/70s and my 30-30 on it, I also have a loadmaster from Lee, but the loadmaster doesnt do rifle very well, AND, My wife wont let me spend 500.00 on a Dillon, So I will have to stay with Lee.

    CANNOT BE FIXED, " shered " off the ram form the arm.

    A new one is only 35.00 delivered to my place anyway.

    And yes, I got my moneys worth out of it.

    loader44.

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1331
    (2/11/02 8:12:11 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Loader44. You will not have to spend $500 to get set up for the two rifle calibers you mentioned.

    The Dillon AT 500 will cost $193.95 and the two rifle caliber shell plates will cost $32.95 each. (Grand total $259.85)

    And if you've got a powder measure meter of any make, they screw right into the top of the removable tool head and you merely hand activate it...unless you want to do like I did and attach a Hornady powder die activator that automatically dumps the pre set powder measure into the cartridge case each time a brass casing is shoved up into that die satation.

    Save you money and get one, you'll never regret it my friend...I know...I did the very same thing after 40 + years of hard headed reloading with lesser crap machines.

    Gunguy

    Edited by: AGunguy at: 2/12/02 11:13:14 am

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2836
    (2/14/02 1:48:40 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You might be surprised, Lee might stand behind that one too...

    Do the Dillons still come with the free dowel rod to knock the stuck bullet out of your barrel if you get going too fast with your rhythm and miss the powder dump plunger?

    Saw THAT plenty of times in my IPSC career in the 80s...

    (Bang Bang PHHhht. SHIT! CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE! ...Anybody got a dowel rod and a hammer?... )

    Once saw a bullet clear the barrel and FALL to the ground in the middle of a stage, funnier than heck!

    NEVER happened with a Hornady, Pacific (Back then they were NOT the same company, or an RCBS, or for that matter a Lee with the Auto disc powder measure...


    Or has Dillon FINALLY come up with an automatic powder dump that WORKS?

    Yeah DIllon has the best warranty, but at least back in the 80s, you NEEDED it....
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 213
    (2/14/02 5:12:22 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Polish, you must be livin' in some evil parallel universe - I've had a Dillon 550B for almost 15yrs, and have missed a powder charge exactly twice in something approaching 60,000 rds, across 8 calibers of rifle and pistol - and both of those were in .45ACP during my IPSC years, when my norm was 5-600 rds per reloading session - and you have to stop sometime to pee / answer phone / chase the neighbor's wife.


    Man, buy the low-end Dillon, you absultely won't regret it, and you'll be willing it to someone.


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1337
    (2/14/02 7:31:49 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Both of my Dillon presses have the Hornady brass case automated activated powder dump of a preset measure of powder. One press has an RCBS powder measure and the other has a Hornady.

    Though I do have an old Dillon RL 450 manual powder measure which is the type you have to push a knob affair to make the powder measure drop into the brass. I've got that one set up on my C&H four die station press.

    Bet Lee won't give you any freebies on the bad order parts either...Dillon will.

    Gunguy





    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2838
    (2/14/02 11:23:33 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I dunno, Lee has backed me in the past when I broke a turret press...that was my first press I bought in 1982 and I still have it, and it still works.

    During my IPSC days I had a Pacific Pro-7, I'll admit I was not OVERLY thrilled with it, but used the Lee Auto disc powder measure...(still have it too!) that dumped an accurate charge EVERY time (you just have to live with "close" to the charge you want if the disc combos don't make up EXACTLY the charge you want...)

    Basically, during the 80s, shooters were split 50-50...either they used Dillon and SWORE by them, or used something else and abused the "DIllon Fanatics..."

    One thing I've learned is there are MORE than one reason for "Good Customer Service..." and one is to justify an initial price that is too high compared to competitors, and another is if you have ALOT of returns initially, and need to keep customers...both of which applied to Dillon when they started in the business...

    Don't get me wrong, Dillon IS quality and DOES have a good return policy...BUT...

    ONE dud round no matter how many you load that sticks in the barrel is ONE too many!

    ONE year I shot over 50,000 practice and match loads, ALL loaded on the Pr0-7...for the 5 or 6 years I competed, I NEVER had a stuck round...

    Guys I shot with that used Dillons, had it happen SEVERAL times a year, granted usually in practice, they took care with "match" ammo....and it became the standing joke among us..."How do you tell the Dillon users?"

    "The guy at the range in the Blue Hat asking if you have a dowel rod..." It was funny,BUT...

    I once saw a dufus I competed with (actually I was only a "C" that year, when it was his first year as "B"...)(I have NO clue how he made it THAT far...except he had more money than brains)

    ...actually stick TWO bullets BACK TO BACK during an Action Pistol Match stage.

    First time, while shooting with a relay of 4 other shooters, he had a misfire, got a dumb look on his face...jacked the slide ejecting the empty, pulled the trigger again...got the same look and proceeded to jack it again, WHILE the stage was in progress and the timer was running!!!!...and this time the RO saw it and yelled CEASE FIRE CEASE FIRE CEASE FIRE, (which pissed off the other competitors BIG time, they had to reshoot the stage...)...he stuck TWO back to back, IN A MATCH...after it was cleared, the RO to make his point had the dufus load his same mag and shoot...the next round was live.

    WHAT would have happened if he did it in the match? Would he have just burst his barrel, or gotten himself or OTHERS hurt????

    He used a Dillon...and I know a BUNCH of us that day SWORE we would NEVER buy one....

    THAT is (was?) a flawed design...IMHO...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1339
    (2/14/02 11:45:34 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The only thing flawed here is the person doing the reloading, its not the fault of the machine.

    After all, I believe there are several well known pistol champs that load exclusively on the Dillon machines because of the volume of ammunition used in a match shoot. Some how, the champs were able to be careful enough to load all their ammo in the proper method and sequence without forgetting to put the powder in all their brass.

    Handloading has the initial responsibility of utilizing the utmost care and caution handling the components to reload ammunition. If one is not up to that measure of responsibility then why reload at all...buy factory stuff.

    Gunguy



    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2841
    (2/14/02 2:07:18 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah and that IS the pat answer always given by Dillon users, and it makes sense UNLESS you are a competitive pistol shooter loading 1000-1200 rounds a WEEK and are NOT a "reloader", but only FORCED to reload by economic circumstance. Which encompasses ALL competitive pistol shooters except those independently WEALTHY.

    Try holding down a full time job, with a wife and kids, shooting 3-400 rounds Tues-Thurs Nights, and Saturday Morning, and 50-200 rounds in Matches EVERY Sunday for about 40 weeks...

    THAT means you are in the basement on Monday and Wednesday loading 300-400 rounds, and on Friday night loading 3-400 practice, and 150-300 Match rounds....

    If you have a Family and want to KEEP it...many competitors do NOT manage that...

    That MEANS you rush SOMETHING to see the wife and kids, much less DO anything with them.

    SO, reloading is a DRAG. You do ANYTHING to get through as FAST as you can, I don't care WHO you are, SPEED is an issue when you are a competitive pistol shooter...

    It is NOT like a "real" reloader, like for a rifle or precision shooter, where reloading is part of the FUN, where each charge is weighed and 20 rounds a session is normal....


    All I am saying is I was after the same "speed" everyone else was...I did NOT use a Dillon...and I NEVER had a case without powder...and I did NOT use any more "care" than was necessary....


    I can also vouch for ALL of my pistol shooting friends that reloaded, whether on Dillons or others...we ALL used about the same "care...," and I would say ABOUT the same amount of "care" that EVERY competitor used....

    ....cases with no powder, resulting in stuck bullets, or comical bullets "falling" out of the pistol barrel HAPPENED. Not alot, but were NOT uncommon...

    And in EVERY case I PERSONALLY observed it happen, maybe about 20 times I'd guess, over the 5 or 6 years I competed regularly, the shooter used a Dillon with the manual powder lever they had to hit in the loading sequence...


    Now I don't know how "scientific" that observation was....but not EVERY other shooter used an automatic dump like I did...so maybe it was the TECHNIQUE Dillon users used, maybe it was a defect in the machine, I don't know...and if any other confirmation is needed, Rayra unintentionally PROVED my point with the "I use a Dillon and that only happened to me..." in his Dillon DEFENSE.

    (Maybe that is ANOTHER reason I don't like them...whenever something "new" comes along and people flock to it like a new "religion," whether it be Glocks, the .40SW, the 9mm and Beretta when it took America by storm, etc,etc, and it is a SACRILIGE to find fault with it, I seem to IMMEDIATELY not like it...so, yeah, some of my prejudice MAY be unwarranted or biased too, I'll grant you that...)

    But at the risk of sounding like a freaking liberal at the CPSC, I think a design HAS to figure out the MAJORITY of people that will be using it, and make it if not "idiotproof," "majority proof."

    "Observed reality" does create prejudices too...

    Call me prejudiced, but I will NEVER use a Dillon due to what I observed in the mid to late 1980s when I competed...MAYBE it's fixed, MAYBE other shooters have a better technique, MAYBE they are just lucky, I don't know...






    But my OTHER complaint with DIllon, and to a lesser extent RCBS, is when you put a New Dillon next to ANY other loader, you DO see quality, and sometimes a noticeable difference in quality.

    It IS as good, or BETTER than any...and features are competitive, or maybe better too...

    But when you flip over the price tag, it is not THAT much better...and when the other tag was on a Lee product, you actually start to question whether Lee is STUPID, or everyone ELSE is overcharging....(and again, I will admit I have been called "cheap," but I prefer the terms "on a budget," or "thrifty" and "value conscious..." LOL)

    And yes, that is probably just MY opinion, which is worthless...

    But I just wanted to show that there IS just a little bit of something behind my prejudice than just pigheaded Polishness ...


    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 214
    (2/14/02 4:08:02 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    polish, maybe this will change your mind -

    the very issue of expense is what drives this.
    My theory / explanation is this -

    The whole issue is about 100.000% accuracy in reloading operations. It really isn't a Dillon issue.
    AGunGuy said it - it's the person, not the machine.

    Reloading with a single-stage press takes forever, but is the best and safest way to start, offering the Reloader the opportunity (and requirement) to inspect every cartridge at each stage of the operation.

    Reloading with a manually-indexed / advanced turret press, whatever the brand, offers all manner of opportunities to miss a critical operation. From incorrectly primed rounds, to no powder or double-charged rounds, etc. (not saying these problems are unique to this type of press).

    As for the high-profile Competitors using Dillon, I'll damn near guarantee you they are using the 1050 series, which is motorized / fully-automated - all you have to do is keep the component hoppers full. Their volume of fire demands high-capacity reloading, and that same demand coupled with sponsorships affords them the very best equipment.

    Now, before anyone slams Dillon because a guy with a blue hat or range bag has ammo problems, they should find out the exact particulars. Anything else is a gross oversimplification.
    Heck, this goes for any brand of products.

    For my own advocacy of Dillon products - I started with Lee, but wound up with Dillon, have had very good experiences with their products and company. And, yes, I do have blue range bag . But I'm not foaming at the mouth about them - I just think that for something as complicated as a reloading machine / hobby, ALL factors ought to be considered, and direct information and / or experience plays a large part.

    And a small paragraph on expense - for something like a reloading press, which you'll have for decades, is price difference really key to a buyer's decision making? Not for me. I'll look at the quality of the product and company. Reloading is supposedly about cost savings, but you've really got to load a LOT of rounds before you've amortized the cost of all the equipment. Easy to say a box of 50rds costs ~35-40% of factory loads. But then divide the $500-$1500 in hardware into the costs, and like I said, a looong time.
    So, over that kind of time span, does it really matter that a Dillon press is twice the cost of similar (and in my opinion, inferior) products? Not to me.

    Rich

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2842
    (2/14/02 5:18:33 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rayra, no convincing needed here on that score...in fact that sounds exactly the way I started...although actually the FIRST .45 reloads I did was with one of the Lee Loaders...the one with the punch and you use the hammer with, by hand ...for REALLY economical loading, of 20-50 rounds at a time for a relaxing afternoon, where time is no object, you get a SURPRISINGLY good reload, for a whole, what, $12 in hardware? (Except when repriming with the hammer and punch deal, and something goes wrong and you detonate one on the kitchen table right behind your new bride who is doing dishes... )( Another reloading lesson, from Lee: Do NOT use a 16 oz claw hammer when the instructions say "light hammer...")

    Then I started competition, although only occasionally. Bought my Lee Turret press, which took me easily to about 50 or so rounds an hour, more when I pushed it, then bought the "auto indexer" which upped that by about 1/3. THAT system, which by the way Lee replaced the indexer for me for free, when I broke the guide thingy, lasted for me until I found I needed to taper crimp...the Lee turret back then only had three stations, now they have four.

    But since I was starting to shoot more, and regularly, I needed a true progressive, and I checked them all out....and a couple of my then new shooting buddies were Dillon fanatics and insisted I try them, and buy a 450...

    But I couldn't afford it. Yes, long term is the way to look at ANY investment, but let's face it. It doesn't matter HOW long you look at a $350 press, that $200 in your pocket is NOT going to grow, at least on the day you NEED to buy it. Plus there was a Pacific "deal" where you got carbide dies for free with the Pro-7, for the $200, and I decided I would buy it for now, and get a Dillon later when I saved up the money for what I considered "the upgrade."

    Well, long story short, the upgrade was never needed, the Pro-7 served adequately, especially when I added the Lee auto disc powder measure I had been using on the turret, it worked just like the berries. In FACT, this was one of the reasons I kept the Pr0-7 so long, that measure is GREAT, and not just for the price, and some progressives it wouldn't work on, Dillon being one, at least back then.

    My "production" time was NOT that much less than my buddy's with their 450s, and SOMETIMES when it was working fine, I did just as well. It was NOT perfect, it was hard to set up, and I remember it "going out of time" and having a helluva time getting it adjusted again. BUT I never felt the need to upgrade, even the one year I shot all those matches, including the IPSC Sectionals and a State championship in AP, two leagues, a pin league for cash, and any other matches within two hours on "off" weeks...

    And it was also during this time I learned Dillon's "Dirty Little Secret."

    I still don't buy the argument ALL problems are the loaders fault. YOU had a failure to charge, does that make YOU a "careless reloader?" I doubt it.

    My point is I ADMIT to not liking reloading, it was a necessary evil, and I DID do everything short of intentionally cutting corners on the unsafe side to get it out of the way as quickly as I could because I HATED it, it was mind-numbing WORK, but I had to do it, in order to shoot, which was FUN.

    I suspect many pistol shooters are just like I was, too.

    But it also goes back to...ONLY Dillon users had those problems I witnessed...I never did, and neither did others I knew that did NOT use Dillons, including some that had just started using the new(at the time) Lee Progressive, at less than HALF the cost, fully set up, of the Dillon press ALONE, again, at the time.

    The cost factor came in to play here to...what was I going to get in return, for the difference in cost, for what I WAS getting with the Pro-7? The slight difference in speed, the neglible if any increase in quality, and the slight increase in Quality did NOT justify the expense! (at least at the time...)

    Again, I quit competing in 89, so I only had about 4 full years, and a couple of partials, so MAYBE you are right if I was still doing it, a Dillon bought then might still be going...but after maybe two hundred thousand rounds, I sold the Pro-7 with a set of standard .45 dies for not much less than I paid for it... I think I got $125 or $150 for it...

    But the Turret? I gave it to a Bro-in-law to get started in reloading. After her and my sister-in-law, got divorced, she gave it to my OTHER bro-in-law without my knowledge, who didn't use it, and after THAT sister-in-law and Bro-in-law got divorced a couple of years ago, lo and behold, I got it back in a box. I bought it I believe in 1981.

    It was badly in need of a cleaning and oiling, but it works just fine...and when I eventually start loading for the .45 again, I'll use it again, too...(I'll just have to use Grampa's single stage I inherited, and use for rifle, for the taper crimp die...

    And if I get back into it, I will definitely give Dillon another look......











    ....and probably buy a Lee progressive...


    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1341
    (2/14/02 7:06:56 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heh heh...I think we've just about got him convinced to buy Dillon, rayra.

    We are both pimps for Dillon because we love what this evil machine does for us. loads mass quantities of buddets and does it with proficiency.

    Gunguy

    Edited by: AGunguy at: 2/14/02 7:30:18 pm

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2845
    (2/14/02 8:11:33 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dillon Pimps! I like it, fit's PLENTY of guys I know and have known to a tee!





    Actually, I thought the opinion polls were going the other way for a second....

    ...like you guys were starting to figure out just exactly what kind of new gun you were going to buy withe the couple of C notes you'd have when you figured out "lesser price" does NOT guarantee "lesser quality" and vice versa, sold your Dillons and started making "massive quantities of just as good buddits" with a Lee Progressive 1000...





    I can handle "Dillon Pimps" as friends, especially since I know you shoot .45s, it's just the "Dillon/Glock..." or "Dillon/Beretta Pimps" I find overbearing...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915


    WyomingSwede
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 217
    (2/14/02 10:06:21 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have no experience with Dillon , but over 15 years with Lee Products and I cant say a bad word about their customer service either. I am split about 50/50 Lee and RCBS with the odd Hornady thrown in. Usually the market speaks and the bad product makers dont last. swede
    Wyoming Swede

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1342
    (2/14/02 11:10:56 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ahhh! But we be non profit pimps, we endorse the product soley for its merit and what it can do for the reloader...if the reloader is able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

    I've known one guy who is deathly afraid of reloading ammunition, he once heard of a guy blowing his single stage set up to bits while mangling himself in the process. I don't know the details but suspect my friend didn't either and just afraid to mess with something over his head. I never got the chance to show him how safe it all was as he lived in another state.

    Am I totally anti Lee, heck no. I've got many sets of Lees reloading dies and they work great. But I have a lot of RCBS die sets to boot, as well as a fe Dillon and Lyman.

    I own a Lee hand activated primer squeeze gizmo for both large and small primers.

    But I got rid of all the other Lee plastic stuff like their powder measure with the odd numbering system for mearsurements.

    I like C&H presses, Hornady presses. This is stuff I still own.

    Polish, you have every right to own what ever you choose to make ammo with, and I know you'll do it with safety because you are an experienced reloader. But at least go to a friend house who has a Dillon and try it on for size. I've tried the Lee stuff and at least gave it a chance. Do this in the closet, don't ask don't tell...but how will I ever know you tried it?

    I like you, ya big lug.

    Gunguy



    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 215
    (2/15/02 12:50:57 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Polish wrote:
    And if I get back into it, I will definitely give Dillon another look......


    ....and probably buy a Lee progressive...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I SO completely walked into that

    Dillon Pimping - I've successfully 'sold' two other reloaders on Dillon gear by giving them a free sample - a reloading session on my gear. One was a Lee man, the other a 'Rock Crusher'.

    And for the fear factor, lots of shooting friends who ought to get into it, but facing my Dillon rig, they're a little put off by the 100-primer feed tube and pint of powder staring them in the face. Maybe you have to start with a single-stage to be so enamoured with progressive presses that you ignore explosives in your face.

    And besides 'fear', there's blatant bias and misinformation - have a good friend that was a L.A. Sheriff. Never had much to do with firearms before joining them, and totally adopted a bias against 'that unsafe crap' (reloaded ammo) that was spoon-fed to him my his instructors.






    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2865
    (2/15/02 10:53:08 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AGG, I HAVE run a Dillon, in fact loaded about a 100 rounds of my practice ammo on one of my buddy's...so I HAVE compared them....

    Which is why I DO like them, just don't think they are THAT much better to justify the difference in price.

    And if you notice, I loaded MOST of my ammo on the Pro-7....and my enthusiasm for that is about lukewarm...

    When it worked, it turned out ammo just as good, just as fast as the Dillon for half the cost...

    BUT I do remember trouble I had with it, with timing issues, and how it wasn't easy to set up...

    So I am NOT wholeheartedly endorsing IT as an alternative...but to give the devil his due, I just might have to see if after the Hornady/Pacific merger fixed the problems, IF I find the need to go progressive again...

    But I AM endorsing all Lee products, and PLASTIC ain't all that bad anymore, heck, I hear they even make GUNS out of it now, even if I would never own one...

    I have a Lee Load All-Jr, I paid a whole $15 for even BEFORE I started to load for my .45...to load for my 12 ga.

    It is JUST the ticket for the occasional clay shooter, and the hunter, slow, but does the job...

    Lo and behold, I STILL have it, and except for the fact it is a little "loose" now, like 20+ years later, that "plastic" thing is STILL the ticket for loading my "specialty" Buck n Ball loads....

    And that "plastic" powder measure is GREAT, long lasting and gives UNIFORM charges, and WON'T spark or conduct static electricity! I still have my original one. And the powder measure set? At $10 or so, which is the same price it was 20 years ago, incidentally, EVERY reloader should have a set....

    Yes, I am WHOLEHEARTEDLY endorsing Lee products...they ARE cutting edge in alot of things, and EVERY loader, no matter HOW expensive his stuff, has a few Lee things, like the priming tools, flippers, deburring tools, etc...and no matter HOW much they think Lee is "cheap..." what THEY use does the job..."cheaper..."

    i.e......I've always wanted to reload for my 8x56R M95...got all excited when I found "custom" dies and case forming stuff available from RCBS, even if they cost more than I paid for the EX condition Rifle! But what put me off was the rare size .329 bullets, so I never bought the dies....

    Lo and behold again, Lee this year came out with the dies for it, for $21!!!! (not the $100+ RCBS wanted for "custom") Now all KINDS of people are scrambling for .329 bullets, and I just BET you somebody is going to step up to the plate and start making affordable ones....once that happens, you will see a WHOLE new interest in that neat fast handling straight pull rifle, maybe even a whole industry start up sporterizing them....

    All because Lee came out with "cheap" dies....and they have done that MANY times in the past....

    I get REALLY fired up when people think Lee is "Low Quality...." Many people look down their noses at Lee, but I say Lee has done MORE for reloading than ANY other manufacturer! SO MANY reloaders have STARTED reloading on Lee stuff, then found out they could do it, it was safe, then moved on for whatever reason, that ALL the others would probably be out of business if it wasn't for LEE!

    On that note, I think that LEE is the MOST IMPORTANT reloading company in the INDUSTRY. Period.

    And it's about time Lee started trying to KEEP those guys that used to move on with quality HIGH END stuff, and I ALSO think all the others are actually AFRAID of what Lee will do to their business when they DO get back that market share....

    Don't dump on Lee...even their Progressives....
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1346
    (2/15/02 6:32:26 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: It Broke, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If Lee wants to get off the dime and start making first rate dependable progressive loading presses, not the plastic gumball machines they offer with tolit pull chains...I'll be glad to take another look at their product line. Hee hee.

    Just funnin ya, now don't go off on a 2 page rant on how wrong I am in that statement...please.

    I would be more than receptive to Lee making a quality progressive, and one with a powder warning die device system so when the brass casing doesn't get its dose of measured powder an alarm sensor will sound. This should be before the bullet gets seated.

    Gunguy
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Informational & Technical Archives Palm OS Software For Checking GunBroker Auctions Feb 24, 2003

Share This Page