I've got a bitch - kids and firearms!

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by ysacres, Mar 6, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    Wazzu WA
    Stratcat67
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (11/2/02 4:35:56 pm)
    Reply I've got a bitch - Kids and firearms!
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    So, I've got a 15 yr old stepson, he's come a long way since me and his mother took custody of him. He's not drinking/drugging (like he was when he was 12) and he's acting responsible and controlling his temper. It is now time for him to take the next step and learn to responsibly deal with firearms. He's totally into them and I've had him out quite a bit over the last month or so..

    I live in a rural town, and my mother has a big backyard that we can shoot in, but its getting cold, so we go to the local indoor range. I asked one day what the requirements were to bring the boy along, the response was "not until he's 18". This pretty much pissed me off, my response was "he can always join a gang and learn to shoot that way".

    My thoughts are, we take so much from these kids and expect them to not get into trouble, I want to bring him to the range, after all, it will be me who pays for his mistakes, but I truly feel he's competent with a firearm in every way, yet people won't let the kid do something that is good and clean fun.. what the hell!


    shooter22
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1615
    (11/2/02 5:36:02 pm)
    Reply Re: I've got a bitch - Kids and firearms!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Obviously this range does not plan on bing in business when his age group gets to be "of age". This narrow minded thinking by the range is what is hurting our shooting sports. Tell the range, to go fly a kite, that you'll drive the extra distance and go elsewhere. I don't know if you have any other choices, but let your feelings be heard. If I had no other place to go, I'd bare the cold and carry on teaching todays youth. Maybe ask the range administration to have a couple days set aside for kids day. remind them, their future business is our youth of today. If these kids lose interest because of their decision, they are committing business suicide.

    You are doing good, keep up the good work.

    Hey, Bin Lauden, our women can kick you butt!






    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5148
    (11/2/02 6:40:32 pm)
    Reply
    Re: I've got a bitch - Kids and firearms!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I wouldn't give those losers any more business. I would even go so far as to label them as anti-gun and spread the word.


    Stratcat67
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (11/2/02 7:05:07 pm)
    Reply OUCH!!
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    ouch fellas!! I have tried to hurt them as much as I can, I buy my firearms from the place down the street, and I've gone from going to the range there twice a week to once in the past month, the backyard is more fun and I can involve the boy that way.

    I did ask them exactly what their problem was, and I was told it was the insurance company's policy. I say screw them.

    I'll go occasionally for the range use through the winter (until I find someplace else) and after that I'll drop them all together.

    The whole deal just pisses me off to no end, for starters, how can I take the kid hunting if he's never shot a firearm, this to me is stupid! But he can't shoot because the damned range won't let him in, more stupidity - and they are supposed to be a firearm/hunting oriented store! The state of IL says he can hunt and even posess a weapon, he's gone through the safety classes even, but they won't let him do it...

    this just makes no sense to me, yet we (the adults) will be the first to crucify the kid for discharging a weapon illegally or joining a gang.. what is this country coming to?



    Stratcat67
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (11/2/02 7:47:44 pm)
    Reply well, I got to thinking...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    and so I sent this email.

    I am emailing you concerning your policy of young adults under the age of 18 not being allowed to shoot in your range. I personally think this policy sucks, these are the future firearm owners and your future business! From a personal point of view you aren't allowing the younger adults of the area any other choice but to join a gang to learn to shoot, now, is this the way you want them to learn? It could be your family on the recieving end of his learning experience. On another note, my son, who is 15 would like to go hunting, he has a valid FOID card, and has also completed the state offered safety courses (twice in fact) but with your policy I have no way to hone his skills and take him hunting.

    As a responsible adult and a parent, I believe that I should be able to choose if my child is allowed to shoot at your range, not you or your insurance people, after all, it is me that will pay for his mistakes (if any). I'm the parent and I know for a fact that he handles firearms as good if not better than people who wait till they are 18, buy a gun and walk into your range. I've seen it there personally.

    At this point until you change your policy on allowing younger people to shoot at your range, I am hereby boycotting both your store and your range. If your range isn't good enough to let my son shoot there, then I don't believe it is good enough to accept my money or my business, I can and will take it elsewhere. And while I understand that my business isn't a lot to you (a gun or two a month) I will also let everyone I come in contact with know my feelings of you and your store's policy, be it in person or on the internet, your store in my eyes is ANTI FIREARM!, it is no worse than people who are now rallying to ban/outlaw firearms. You deal with the consequences of your actions when this kid is 18 yrs old and not interested in firearms, you aren't going to get his business and then where are you going to be? You aren't giving the youth of today many options to learn the safe and proper handling of a firearm, or to allow them to get interested in shooting either for sport or pleasure.

    I look forward to your response to my email and I'll even come up and discuss it in person with the owner of Megasports, but I strongly believe my thoughts are right, and I will not back down until a compromise is met.

    thank you for your attention in this matter.

    John

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 6177
    (11/3/02 1:11:51 am)
    Reply
    Re: well, I got to thinking...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Welcome Aboard John!

    Good for you for addressing the issue, let us know how
    things work out if you would.

    Tac
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    Stratcat67
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (11/3/02 1:54:25 am)
    Reply AAARRRRGGHHHH!!
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    Tac, I'm pissed buddy!!

    the mail was returned cause their inbox is full, what a crock, that was one of my better typed emails!

    by the way, very cool forum you guys run here!



    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5151
    (11/3/02 9:04:00 am)
    Reply
    Re: AAARRRRGGHHHH!!
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    Well no doubt about it, your email gets the message across. I do agree with you and your course of action. To bad the idiots can't get any emails. Of course sometimes a letter is much more personal and gets better results.


    Stratcat67
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (11/3/02 9:08:40 am)
    Reply to prove my point
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I bought my 10/22 at walmart last night, it was 20 something bucks cheaper, and next time I'm by that store I'm going to drop off a copy in person. You guys have (in my mind) confirmed that my line of thinking is right and they are wrong. Maybe a change will be made, not just for me, but for the younger fellas that need a hobby and not trouble..



    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4586
    (11/3/02 9:23:59 am)
    Reply Re: AAARRRRGGHHHH!!
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    John, is there any regulated shooting sports for the kids in your area? I understand the liability part on the Ranges, but I also know that we've had De-Mo-Lay 22 rifle shoots here in Indiana.
    Check with the NRA, possibly someone in your area is affiliated
    with some sanctioned shooting.

    Good Luck, and keep us informed.



    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 398
    (11/3/02 10:47:04 pm)
    Reply Re: AAARRRRGGHHHH!!
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    I think they're blowing smoke up your butt by hiding behind the insurance company policy. Certainly their insurer has some sort of exception for a minor that is accompanied by an adult and under constant supervision. I think you're right - they just don't want a kid in there. That goes against everything we responsible firearms enthusiasts are striving for: educating our children about proper ownership and use of firearms.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 6194
    (11/4/02 1:17:28 pm)
    Reply
    Re: AAARRRRGGHHHH!!
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    I agree with 52!

    Thanks for the compliment to the site John, good to
    have you on board!

    Tac
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    anchored
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 95
    (11/4/02 2:58:33 pm)
    Reply .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I wouldn't dismiss the ins. company excuse so quickly. Business liability insurance is way expensive, and I imagine it's even more so for a shooting range. Given that an <18-yo, even with a waiver or liability by a parent, can still sue after he reaches 18, and you've got a liability nightmare that is almost impossible to insure Probably, the insurance is available but at a prohibitive price, and because of continuing ("tail")liability, he'd have to keep insurance for years after the range closed. You've got to figure, the guy isn't in the gun business because he hates guns and shooting, and he has a right to protect his own assets and make a living without being afraid some schmuck will sue him for everything he's worked all his life for someday down the road.
    Would you be willing to pay a huge premium over the regular range fee so your kid can shoot there? Why should he be willing to pay more of his money for that?
    The mystery masked man was smart, he got himself a Tonto, 'cause Tonto did the dirty work for free.
    But Tonto he was smarter, and one day said "Kemosabe, kiss my ass I bought a boat I'm going off to sea."
    -L.Lovett.

    {ONE PARTICULAR HARBOUR}{Auction45}{Famous Flying Yen Shop}

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4598
    (11/4/02 3:49:25 pm)
    Reply Re: .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Speaking of "schmucks", what are you thinking anchored?
    What the hell is wrong with affording our yough people with shooting rights. There are sanctioned shooting sports for our young.



    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    JackRyann
    Member
    Posts: 45
    (11/5/02 12:43:49 am)
    Reply I know it's never you kids but....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I gotta say I quit going to several indoor ranges because of the actions of adults in many of them.

    Do you really want to stand next to their kids while they have a gun in thier hand? I don't.
    Grill it and kill it! Or some thing like that.

    gwitness
    Member
    Posts: 27
    (11/5/02 1:17:06 am)
    Reply Re: I know it's never you kids but....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The range I shoot at not only "allows" kids but encourages you to bring them, as a matter of fact at the annual pic-nic, we set up a kids fun shoot. My 9year old son and 12 year old daughter had a ball shooting at balloons and soda cans and whatever else we could find. Yesterday I had them both out to the range again, and they continue to amaze me with their marksmanship as well as their safety sense. Granted, this is an outdoor range, I don't have an indoor range to shoot at. I think that it is very short sighted to not allow kids in to shoot, After all, they are the future of the right to keep and bear arms.

    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 411
    (11/5/02 8:22:47 am)
    Reply Re: I know it's never you kids but....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't go to shooting ranges; I do all my shooting out on the ranch. And unfortunately, I don't have a son - only a stepdaughter.

    But my buddy has a 12-year old son. They let him shoot his BB gun all over the place. This summer I spent some time with him and introduced him to a .22 rifle. He absolutely loved it, and it was very rewarding to be able to teach a youngster about firearms safety and marksmanship. But he was still a little leery of my SKS and despite my best efforts to persuade him to take at least one shot with it, he declined. Oh well, maybe next summer.

    Anyway, I would encourage any responsible adult gun-owner to teach a kid the basics of firearms safety and responsibility. It really will make you feel good. If the jackass at your local range won't let you bring your kid, find another range or another place to shoot. It's worth it.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Stratcat67
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (11/5/02 8:24:50 am)
    Reply kids
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    hey Jack, you've got an excellent point, but..

    I don't want my kid to grow up to be one of the adults you are afraid to stand next to!! I want him to do it right, or not at all. The road he's on will lead him to do it right, and enjoy it.

    and I too have been next to adults at the range that I think would be worse then handing my daughter a gun at this point..


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4892
    (11/5/02 8:28:48 am)
    Reply
    Re: I know it's never you kids but....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1952Sniper - if you've just got a stepdaughter why not get her into shooting? It's not just a guys thing you know. That is unless she's already out of the house.

    Stratcat67
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (11/5/02 8:33:54 am)
    Reply stepdaughters can shoot too!!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    yeah 1952Sniper, get her into it. Mine goes with us occasionally when her social life allows, I haven't worked her up to a .22 yet (she's 12) but she's fairly decent with a BB Gun.. and if she grows to shoot like her Mom she'll be trying to steal my .45 from me too. That woman is a damn good shot, but she stole my gun




    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 422
    (11/5/02 8:36:20 pm)
    Reply Re: stepdaughters can shoot too!!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    She's 20 years old and halfway through college. I married her mother too late to have any real effect on her upbringing. Unfortunately, she inherited my wife's anti-gun sentiments. They both roll their eyes at me when it comes to guns. I'm working on winning my wife over to the right side, but it's hard to do when I'm spending so much money on guns. She despises that.

    But hey - I just bought her another horse, so maybe that will shut her up for a while. And my step-daughter will have to get used to it, because I turned her bedroom closet into my gun storage space. Boy will she be surprised when she comes home at Thanksgiving!

    Maybe I'll take my step-daughter out on the ranch over her next break and try to convince her to do some shooting. Thanks for the advice....
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 6202
    (11/5/02 9:15:31 pm)
    Reply
    Re: stepdaughters can shoot too!!
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    52,

    Maybe if you can get both of them to read some of the
    posts here and on some of the other boards? We need
    more women into the art of shooting, like our Ms. T!

    Tac
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    anchored
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 97
    (11/6/02 1:51:49 pm)
    Reply .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Speaking of "schmucks", what are you thinking anchored?
    What the hell is wrong with affording our yough people with shooting rights. There are sanctioned shooting sports for our young
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I promise one of these days I'll learn not to express my own opinion around here, but until I do, I'll just refer you to my previous post above, which says quite explictly exactly what I was thinking. I don't see anything in it that even touches in the subject of denying a youth or anyone else a right to shoot.

    That said, if you were to argue that a private, US Citizen store owner with rights of his own, could not deny a constitutional right to someone, I'd point out that he damn well can, since the constitution limits the actions of the government, and he aint it.

    If I owned a gun range, and it came to a choice between letting a 16-year old, no matter how competent, use it and getting sued and losing everything me and my family owns, I'd politely mention just what you did, there are other places youth can shoot that don't involve screwing up my life.



    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 6215
    (11/6/02 5:14:12 pm)
    Reply
    Re: I've got a bitch - Kids and firearms!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I promise one of these days I'll learn not to express my own opinion around here
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    anchored,

    That's what this place is all about, expressing ones opinion,
    as long as it's kept civil of course.

    Express Away Folks!

    Tac
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4610
    (11/6/02 6:59:07 pm)
    Reply Re: .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    espresso away

    Ballistic
    Member
    Posts: 31
    (12/18/02 7:34:13 am)
    Reply DAMN
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    i live in California and even I(17 years old) can goto a range, and have since i was a wee one...
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2003
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