Iver johnson 22 defender with eagle grips

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by thunderace, Apr 3, 2009.

  1. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Hi, can anyone tell me how to get a schematic for this pistol? a brief discription is a 7 shot 22 cal single action solid frame 2/1/4 octagon barrel,cylinder is removable by pulling out cyl. pin that is held by a latch under barrel.Pistol has black rubber grips with eagle and a spur trigger and serial no.894 on lower left of grip frame.The only logo is on top of frame is D E F E N D E R.Is this the first or second model Defender?The gun is missing its cylinder lock and cylinder hand or lever and spring.I can make the parts if I knew what they look like.Or buy them If they are available.Could someone let me know if they have a positive answer on this gun.you can post it or email me at rgenzen@aol.com. Thanks Rick:
  2. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    to the best of my knowledge there are no known schmatics for this revolver. in the parts drawing chapter of my iver johnson book is a picture of one of my defenders that i took apart and photographed along with a defender 89 revolver. your simply marked defender is the first model manufactured between 1873 and 1888. there are no known factory serial number records available but there are serial serial number series each starting at 1 and going to 99,999 so there is no known way of dating these defender other than the era of their manufacture.

    FYI chapter 15 of my book has a parts drawing of ever known iver johnson handgun, either from a catalog or one from my collection i took apart and took pictures of. this includes the very first single shot percussion pistiol manufactured in 1871 to the I.J. compact 25 introduced in 1993.
    bill
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
  3. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Hi,can you tell me if the pictures in your book are big enough with detail for me to make the missing parts for this defender 22? I saw your book on the Internet this morning but did not know it was that detailed.I will probably order a copy just to have for my reference for other IJ guns. Thanks, Rick
  4. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    the pictures are not to scale but sharp enough to show what parts look like. some of the flat leaf and vee springs are vey tiny. every things is labeled.
    bill
  5. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill, thank you for the help ,I am going to buy a copy of the book you wrote.It will be a great asset to me when I worrk on a IJ. Thanks,Rick
  6. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    thank you
    bill
  7. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill, I ordered your book today but it wont get here for a week.I wanted to work on it and I took it apart and gave it a good cleaning.I was hopping to get a jump start on making the missing parts if possible.Can you give me any type of discription of these parts?The missing cyl lock up lever looks like it may pivot off a pin over the trigger and is actuated by the hammer and probably has a leaf or v spring for its tension.The hand ,is missing also.I noticed a small machined notch under the left grip panel behind the hammer and dont know if it was a factory mistake or it held a end of a spring.also are any of the similar guns from Hopkins and Allen have parts that are able to interchange in this model? Thanks, Rick
  8. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    yes the notch in the frame is for the long cylinder hand flat spring. i can't answer the question about if H&A parts might be used except i doubt they could be. the cylinder lock is retained by a thur pin. the cylinder lock is a strange "L" shape piece. the spring for the cylinder lock is also "L" shaped. the cylinder hand is secured to the hammer by a very tiny screw. the cylinder lock is one of the main parts redesigned in the 'defender 89' models and completely defferent from the early defender models.
    bill
  9. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill, Thank you very much for the help,I checked around some obsolete gun parts houses and no luck as yet to find any of these parts.I think it will be unlikely I will find any parts for this .I dont mind making the parts I have plenty of time since I retired last year and have taken this up as a hobby for my gun collecting. Thanks again, Rick
  10. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill ,recieved your book today and all I can say is fantastic!I looked at the pictues of the 22 defender and it looks very simple to make the missing parts.The only question I have is the barrel on mine is a tappered octagon 2 and3/16 th barrel and has 3 straight riflings at 120 degrees apart.I thought . all first model defenders in 22 cal were smooth bores and did not use rifling in the 22 cal until the improved model defender 89 came out. Mine does have the internals of the first model.Do you think a barrel change was done or its a odd one in manufacture. Thanks ,Rick
  11. kingcuke

    kingcuke Member

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    You might want to try Dick Williams Gun Shop Inc. I just got a cylinder/ejector for my H&R Premier from them that I didn't think I'd ever find.

    http://www.dickwilliamsgunshop.com/
  12. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    i doubt the barrel has been replaced. the information of the specification for the defender's is based on catalog information and individual revolvers examined. since this is a very high production model and no factory information other than they were made, this is most likely a late production version.

    bill
  13. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill ,serial No. is 834 ,but like you said the info from the 1870 s catalogs with a high production gun as this may in some cases be incorrect. Rick
  14. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    the serial numbers are really batch numbers and a new batch was started when 99,999 had been reached and in most cases this only took a year. this mean there were many serial number (batch) series. iver johnson's arms and cycle works was a very large factory and during the era the defenders were manufactured they had the capacity to manufactured 2000 revolvers a day. the iver johnson 1896 catalog states that over 1,100,000 double action american bulldog revolvers had been manufactured and there is no reason to think the single action spur trigger revolvers were not produced in that number also.
    bill
  15. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill,made the cyl. hand and a pin this afternoon so far it looks good.The hole in the hammer for mounting hand on this one has no threds to hold a screw,so I countersunk the hole in hand and made a pin with a flat head like a screw that will seat flat in hand.I see to install hand to hammer in gun they must be put in seperate and line up the 2 holes thru the hammer mounting hole and put pin or screw thru hand and hammer.These little parts on this gun make me feel like a watchmaker.Your book and your advice has been a great help on this . Thanks, Rick
  16. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    BILL, I HAVE A QUESTION ON HOW THE CYL STOP WORKS OFF THE CAM ON THE HAMMER ON THE DEFENDER 22 I AM WORKING ON. I SEE THE CAM ON THIS HAMMER IS TAPERED IN WIDTH ACCROSS THE HAMMER THICKNESS.IS THE CYL STOP END THAT RIDES ON THIS CAM SUPPOSED TO EASE OFF THIS CAM AT ITS NARROW POINT TO ALLOW CYL STOP TO COME FULLY UP WHILE THE HAMMER IS FULLY COCKED? OR IS THIS FOR SOME TYPE OF CLEARANCE FOR THE CYL HAND THAT PASSES CLOSE TO HAMMER?MADE CYL STOP TODAY AND FITTED IT TO PISTOL AND SEEMS LIKE IT WILL WORK FINE , LOTS OF HAND FITTING TO GET IT TO WORK AS IT SHOULD. THANKS ,RICK
  17. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    rick
    its been at least five years since i took my defender apart to photograph. can't supply an answer to your question right now. will have to take it apart again in order to verify how the cylinder lock should work.
    bill
  18. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    BILL, YOU DONT HAVE TO DO THAT FOR ME ,THATS A PAIN IN THE YOU KNOW WHAT.I THINK IT JUST RIDES ON THE HAMMER CAM.I PULLED HAMMER BACK WITH CYL LOCK IN GUN AND LOOKED DOWN IN GUN NEXT TO HAMMER AND I THINK IT WILL WORK OK WITH SOME FITTING TO EASE HAMMER RETURN. RICK
  19. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill,I finished all the parts today and hand fit each part,the gun works perfectly.Gun locks up tight with no play in cylinder.Your book and your help have been a great asset in this little gun repair. I guess its time to find something else to buy and work on.We have a gun show this weekend and maybe I will find something else to work on. Thanks ,Rick
  20. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Bill, I picked up a little Kolb, Baby hHammerless the other day,Do you have any knowledge on the parts of this revolver?It is marked on top strap Baby Hammerless 1910, pat. April 5/10.It is a square butt and 6 shot 22 short folding trigger.It is not working ,the cyl hand is missing some type of spring and the lever that engages the hammer inside does not engage, it might have a spring missing also.Tried to find a schematic to see what is missing and what it looks like but no luck as yet.I understand there is a book out by Frank Sellers ,called The Baby Hammerless.I dont know if it has parts drawings like your IJ book ,and did Find it at Rutgers books but they dont give a discription on the details in the book.If you cant help on this one can you refer me to someone who knows these revolvers Thanks ,Rick
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