Iver Johnson Pony .380 ?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by offeror, May 12, 2005.

  1. offeror

    offeror New Member

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    Was in a gun shop the other day and they're asking $289 for an Iver Johnson Pony. I used to have a similar gun (FI model D) and have always wanted another similar model. This particular gun is near 100% on the bluing, very good shape. I know someone will say get a Colt but I like these too. Anyone?

    Also, they've got an old Colt .32 (model 19xx, I forget) and a pocket Colt .25 (looks like a baby Browning but I think it was Colt) in medium condition, that are clearly used but not worn out (G-VG), probably 85% blue. These were in the same price range as the I-V Pony. Any thoughts on any of these?
  2. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Well, your IJ Pony actually is an FI. Blue Book value is:

    100% - $290
    98% - $245
    95% - $210

    Of the other two:

    Model 1903 Pocket .32ACP

    90% - $400
    80% - $300
    70% - $275

    Model 1908 Vest Pocket Hammerless .25ACP (Colt licensed version of the
    Baby Browning)

    90% - $275
    80% - $225
    70% - $200
  3. offeror

    offeror New Member

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    Thanks, X. That's helpful. Sounds like they want about $50 more than Blue Book for the I-V and maybe the same for the Colts considering condition. Assuming blue book is wholesale then they're right at the median.
  4. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Blue Book is supposed to be retail......across the counter or seller to buyer.
  5. offeror

    offeror New Member

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    I haven't used a blue book in a long time, but I now get it. Seems like these guys are $50 too high then. Maybe I'll go in with the print-out of your numbers, hand it to a sales guy, and say, "I'm interested in any of these. Have you got any to look at?"

    Then let them reconcile the prices if they want a sale... :( You can bet they paid a lot less to get them than they're asking.
  6. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    The blue book is an average price, without regard to geography; it is based on highest and lowest prices paid, without regard for the region.
    Typically, about 10-15 % higher than a shrewd buyer would end up paying, and, sometimes, way farther off than that, on price.
    You already know that the colt pistols are a better investment, as they will likely hold value, over the course of time, and never, as both are out of print, be worth less than their cost, today, if bought right; let your conscience be your guide!
    Robert Day used to manufacture .22rf Colt conversion units, and complete pistols, in my area, under the "Day Arms Corp" logo. A buddy called from a gun show, in Houston, yesterday, asking about value, as no one in Houston could find a "blue book" price.
    I told him I would buy the conversion kit for $300/ he had given $225/ if I get it, it is already sold to a couple of buyers for $400. Now,what is it worth???
    In Houston, to a Miss seller, $225 was a fair price; here, it's a $400 commodity. Blue book- not listed. See what I mean??? based on this deal, alone, were it listed in the blue book, the price would be: 400+225=625, %2= $312.50, which is low, here, and high, there. We're 200 miles apart
    Hope this helps...
    Last edited: May 23, 2005
  7. ROTCC

    ROTCC Former Guest

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    If you want a USEFUL ccw pistol, the Pony wins hands down, IF you handload for it. It has a locked breech, letting you load it to 300 ft lbs. The 85 gr Silvertip jhp can be driven to nearly 1300 fps in that gun. It's also small enough for front pants pocket carry, the Colt is not. There's several .40 cal guns that are smaller and lighter than that Colt 380. A blowback .380 might as well be a .22, for all the "power" that it has ,and you have to pay 20x as much for the ammo. Bad deal.
  8. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
  9. flipp

    flipp Former Guest

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    Your own diagram shows a single locking lug on the barrel, right in front of the chamber. Care to remove your foot from your mouth now?
  10. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Too bad you did not see the other barrel there 'without the lug'. Maybe I should put my boot up your ........naw not enough brains to waste my time or energy on.
  11. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    The Pony came in two configurations, blowback and locked breech.

    The locked breech had a single locking lug on a Browning drop-link action.
    #2 Part #446630C Barrel W/Link & Pin

    The blowback version, also was drop-link, but had a plain barrel.
    #2B Part #446650C Barrel W/Link & Pin - W/O Locking Lug
  12. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    i think if you check the parts drawing you will see that what you are describing as a blow-back actually has a step in front of the chamber that acts as a single locking lug this is a very late production item. most have two locking lugs the one in front and the stepped chamber. the pony was carried in iver johnson catalogs between 1978 and 1992 but actually had a very spotted production with most of the production in just 3 years 1979, 1984 and 1985 with less than 15,000 actually manufactured. the history of the pony and how it came about is covered in detail in the soon to be published revision of my book on iver johnson's arms & cycle works.
    bill
  13. agarcia42069

    agarcia42069 New Member

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    Anybody know where I can buy a pony
  14. oilfieldchild

    oilfieldchild New Member

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    I have an Iver Johnson .380 Pony. Don't remember when or where I bought it, or what I paid for it. I carried it as a back-up gun while I was a police officer in the 1980s.

    The weapon has a low serial number of IJ0088xx. I would guess it it 95% original color. Grips are original and have never been off. It is very accurate. Several people have used it to qualify for the Texas Concealed Weapon Permit. The front safety (when the chamber is open) is extremely tight and has left a tiny mark like a drag from the normal off position to the on position. The red off safety dot is very bright. I have 1 magazine with it.

    I would like to determine when it was made and its value. It is not for sale.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  15. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    i do not have a complete serial number listing for this model. iver johnson took over the manufacturing from firearms internamional in 1978. the IJ serial number prefix was the first to be used after iver johnson used up all the prenumbered firearms international frame. a four digit serial number almost has to be one of the 3,773 manufactured in 1984 after the move to jacksonville, arkansas, the picture is so small i just can't make out the city.

    in 1977 a new owner of iver johnson arms & cycle works moved every thing to middlesex, new jersey when he aquired the plainsfield machine co. in 1982 he sold the company to a group of investor's in arkansas, who then moved every thing to a new location in jacksonville arkansas. during the time of this purchase and move in 1982/1983 there was no reported sales of the pony 380 caliber pistol. the following year in 1984 there was 3,773 reported sales of this model and 3,395 in 1985.

    i can attest to the fact that these pistols were not built in serial number order but a group of frames were cast, machined and numbered and then built as needed with no regards to serial number. i have seen one report that stated only a little over 10,000 of the iver johnson pony's were built with at least five different serial number series.
    u.s prefix left over frames from firearms international
    u.s sufix left over from FI
    I.J. prefix iver johnon manufactured in jacksonville
    U.J. sufix iver johnson made in jacksonville
    no prefix frames up to about 800 made by a houston company and assembled in jacksonville.

    i am still trying to figure out how all these different series fit into only 10,000 plus made between 1978 and 1993

    bill
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