J. E. Gebby 22-250 Wildcat

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Garris, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. Garris

    Garris New Member

    Nov 17, 2012
    A 91 year old friend gave me his 22-250 J.E. Gebby to sell for him. The rifle has a Winchester M 70 220 Swift 26" barrel with all information stamped on it exceptfor the serial number which I can not find any where. It has a Mauser receiver. Also their is no stamps indicating who made this rifle. My friend told me it was a J.E. Gebby. Questions:
    Why doesn't the barrel have a serial Numer, Can it be a Gebby that was made before he started to stamp his productions? Also, it has a J. W. Fecken Serial #11232 mounted on it. Looking forward to your reply.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  2. V509

    V509 Active Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    Buckeye State
    If the barrel started out as a 220 Swift it must have been shortened and rechamberes.
    The receiver has the SN not the barrel
    Serial numbers were not required on guns until 1968 some had them some did not
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012

  3. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    I've only seen 6 or 7 genuine Gebby rifles though...Apparently not too many of them made it this far north.
    Every known Gebby built rifle that I've seen in person or online is clearly marked with his "J.E. Gebby" stamp and the caliber on the barrel along with his shop serial number.
    The caliber marking will be surrounded by "crow foot" or sunburst style lines.
    If it is a .22 Varminter or one of his other Varminter cartridges, it will have a two line caliber stamp.
    1st line = TRADEMARK REG.
    2nd line = .22 VARMINTER
    Gebby did copyright the Varminter name for several wildcats.

    I don't know if anyone has ever cataloged his rifles by his shop numbers but I'm sure he kept records for himself.
    I seriously doubt that he would've let one out of his shop without his name or a shop number on it. Never heard of any early "experiments" that came out unmarked.

    For a Mauser, it's possible that the serial number for the action will be under the scope mount on the receiver ring.
    It would be interesting to find out if there is a date on the receiver ring as well. That will help date the rifle, but it will probably involve pulling the scope mount off the action.

    While I hate to doubt the stories of my elders, I know that details get fuzzy over time. It could be that he's old enough to remember when the .22-250 was "a Gebby" and not a Remington regardless of who built the rifle.

    I'm thinking more along the lines that this was a smith-built rifle that was built up using spare parts and chambered for Gebby's cartridge.
    With a Fecker scope on it, it would very likely be a build from Gebby's era.
    Can you post up some pics?
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  4. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2004
    Goodyear, Arizona
    I have to agree, you have a rifle that was built to chamber the Gebby round, not a Gebby built rifle. I built a rifle using a 1903 receiver, chambered in 25-06 Remington. It wasn't a Remington rifle, only the cartridge used, but when ever someone asked me what the rifle was, instead of going into a long dissension I would simply say it was a 25-06 Remington. Any rifle J.E Gebby built was so marked.
  5. Garris

    Garris New Member

    Nov 17, 2012
    Thanks for the information you guys have given me. I took the scope mount off the receiver and there was a stamp - SPANDAU 1916. Also, on the right side below the SPANDAU are what I believe are three stamped Gothic letters that I can't make out with crowns on top each letter. I think the first letter is a F, then M, and then D. Stamped on the left is a German bird icon, the numbers 72-1 and to the aft of those stamps is Gew 88 or it could be 98. I've taken picures and will attempt to send them. Thanks again.

    Attached Files:

  6. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    That is a Gewehr 98 action ('98 Mauser) built at the Spandau factory in 1916.
    That date and the scope could very likely put it as a pre-WWII era build...which is the time that Gebby was active. I still don't think it was one of his works though.

    It's a very nice looking rifle, but not much attention to detail put into it by whoever put it together.
    Being that the .220Swift marking is still on the barrel. I would definitely want to have a chamber cast done to verify the caliber. If it was set back and rechambered to .22-250/Varminter/etc, I would think the smith should have struck out the .220Swift stamp and remarked with the new caliber.
  7. Garris

    Garris New Member

    Nov 17, 2012
    Thank you Bindernut,
    I'm going to follow your advise and get a cast done even though I'm 95% sure it is a 22-250 for two reasons - 1. after placing a 220 round in the chamber the bolt did not close and after putting in a 22-250round it appeared that it was snug and proper and the action did close, 2. my friend said it was a 22-250. But, I have to be 100% sure it is what it is before I sell it to any one or buy it myself.

    Another question - I want to keep the value of the rifle as high as it can be. And, at this time I have no idea what the precieved value is. So, would it be wise to convert it back to a .220, if that can be done, if it turns out to be a 22-250. My thinking is that this would save the M70 Swift 220 barrel from being stamped out.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  8. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    There's not really any need to "save" it by rechambering back to 220 Swift.
    It's not a Model 70 so those markings really don't mean anything. Somebody just used a spare Model 70 barrel when they sporterized that Mauser.

    Basically, as it's marked, you've got a custom built rifle made from a bunch of leftover parts. Nothing special valuewise except that it is most likely an older build that some guys might be interested in. The Fecker scope adds to the value a bit too...
    Without seeing the rifle in person and I'm not too versed on vintage scope values, it's hard to put a pricetag on it. Hopefully someone else will have a better idea on a value.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  9. gunboat

    gunboat Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    San Josie
    You might be mindful that pre rem 22-250's often had slightly different shoulder angles and other dimensions depending on who made it --
  10. Paul Curtis

    Paul Curtis New Member

    Jan 7, 2013
    Does this mean, possibly, that a std. factory .22-250 Rem cartridge might not headspace and seat properly in this rifle? How accurate are the external mount adjusting pre-War scopes by Fecker, Sith and Unertl compared to the qualioty scopes of today: Leupold, Schmidt and Bender, Zeiss, etc?? What might this rifle be worth without the Fecker scope and mounts, and what is the current market for these older Fecker scopes?
  11. Twicepop

    Twicepop Well-Known Member

    Jan 9, 2012
    NW Ohio
    Absolutly get a chamber cast done, the wildcat 22-250 had several different shoulder angles on it depending on which smith did the work. When Remington standardized the cartridge they settled on a 28 degree angle, the wildcats ran between 25 and 30 degrees, and the neck length varied also.
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