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J. P. Sauer & Shon 9 X 57 Mauser

4K views 22 replies 5 participants last post by  sharps4590 
#1 ·
I picked up this slick old bolt action 2, maybe 3 months ago. I thought I had started a thread on it but evidently not. Anyway, the bore is slick and shiny but shows some wear and the rifling is shallow.



First thing was dies and cases. Even with the wear in the bore this crazy thing still only miced .352. I got hold of Dave at Ch-4D and he made up a set of dies for me. A friend had a pile of 30-06 brass and he gave me 100 cases. Forming was easy, just slowly run the -06 case over the tapered .352 expander plug and set the neck. Then cut off most of the excess and trim to final 2.21 length. Even the chamber is tight on this rifle so I had to take just a bit off the head. It amounted to .002, not enough to worry about. Here's the 9 X 57 cases flanked by the parent 30-06 cases.



I had a little data from COTW and with some help from GGCA friends who have 9 X 57's I decided to start with a Hornady Interlock, 250 gr. round nose. First I had to make a swaging die to take them to .353-.354. A bit of sizing lube and the bullets ran through the die easily. Now I have bullets and dies so I decided to start with 40 grs. of IMR-3031. It was pretty good right out of the gate except that it was about 8 inches high. I upped the powder charge, 1 grain at a time, to the 44 grs. COTW gave and POI never came down enough to help. We are blessed locally with an excellent gunsmith/machinist os I took the rifle over to Mark and he made me two front sights, one .050 taller and another .070 taller. The shorter one printed a few inches low so out came the file and I proceeded to "shoot and file" until I had it cutting the X-ring at 50 yards, benched. Velocity averaged 2143 fps with energy at 2550. There's a good hunting load!

I'm not really cheap but doggone jacketed .358 round nose bullets are a bit expensive for an old cast bullet shooter....and they are not the most plentiful. A friend sent me 50 sized, lubed and gas checked cast bullets that run right at 250 grs. My first load with them was H-4895 and I was surprised at the results. I didn't expect gilt edged accuracy with this old bore but I didn't expect them to tumble either. At 50 yards they were going through the target sideways. I suspected I was overdriving them for the shallow and worn rifling. So just a bit ago I loaded 13 grs. of Unique, topped that with an open cell foam filler of enough length and diameter to hold the powder against the primer and loaded 3 cartridges with the cast bullet. Ahhhhh....the sweet sight of success!!!!! All three went under an inch at 50 yards, benched! I didn't set up my chronograph so I don't really know what it's running but I expect around 1350, give or take. Problem is that it is again about 8 inches high. That's ok....there is still the .070 taller front sight!! I can repeat the process and have a playing/plinking load with the cast and a good hunting load with the jacketed. I need to tweak the cast load and if I can get to 1500 fps with it I may use it for everything. A 250 gr. cast bullet at 1500 fps will work on any whitetail in the states.

Now to contact Tom at Accurate molds and pick out one of his bullets and have him cut me a mold at .354...and I am set!

Problem is now I need another project.....maybe that Sempert - Krieghoff kiplauf I saw on ********* in 8 X 57I.
 
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#2 ·
Hi, it's nice to see people like you bringing back to life some of those old and forgotten cartridges.
I must admit that at first I thought you were working on the old 9.3x57. as it is far more common than the 9x57.
Your mention of having a rather shallow rifling is exactly what one would expect from this type of rifle and cartridge combination.

Keep up the good work.
Gary
 
#4 ·
Well thanks Alpo....maybe I am not losing my mind!!! I thought I had at least a blurb about it somewhere on here.

Thank you Gary, that's nice to hear and good to know someone else appreciates those old cartridges and rifles. I'm probably finished working with 9mm-9.3mm cartridges as this makes the 4th I've worked with. But we all know how that is. Let some nice, interesting rifle turn up and that thought can go out the window. I am about half looking at a Sempert-Krieghoff kiplauf in 8 X 57I. That's about like the 30-06 in that precious little, if anything, is left to be learned about it....but the rifle is sooooo sweet looking in the pictures!!!!
 
#5 ·
I remembered the "side panel" discussion. That's what I searched for. :)
 
#6 ·
Ahhh,....so the memory is why you get the big bucks.....lol!! Thanks again, I do appreciate it.

I like those side panels and I suppose it's just because you don't see many and they are almost an immediate identifier of a fairly high quality firearm. From this time and distance I expect many see them as an amusing and passing fad.....which I suppose they actually were.

I just tried my 3rd Unique load with the cast bullet and it's still printing at or just under an inch with no signs of tumbling or tilting. The POI hasn't come down any. Pressure signs are still very mild. I'll keep going up a bit at a time until accuracy falls off or pressure shows signs of increasing then chrono the load. Then I'll install the taller sight and file it in.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I love some of those old cartridges. In a short while I hope to be working on the old 8x58R.
Its a low pressure cartridge designed for the Remington / Danish rolling block rifle.
Right now they are dirt cheap up here in Canada and can be had in exellent condition for only a couple of hundred dollars.
 
#9 ·
Go for it gr!! I think it would be great fun.

soundguy, not bad at all. The reforming and trimming part was a snap and taking off the couple thousandths was done in just a minute or so in the lathe. I believe if a person had access to or their own accumulation of 8 X 57 brass all that would be needed is the reforming and trimming, provided one got a 9 X 57 die set with a tapered expander button. The last batch of cases I made for the rifle I took the Remington 30-06 brass from 30 cal. to 35 in one step without annealing.....just go slow.
 
#11 ·
No doubt. I didn't have any 8 X57 brass or access to any or I would have gone with it.
 
#13 ·
ahh ok that makes sense, I was wondering why you chose 30-06, but you did not have 8x57, so no brainer :)

sometimes hard to follow the thread on a phone.

really nice smoke pole.

right now I'm looking for a good source of the old .318 8mm projectiles, I have managed to come up with a box of s& b 8x57 Jr in .318, and thru trades 2 boxes if 8x 57 jrs .323, only wanted them for their rimmed cases, will pull, resize and reload when I. Find appropriate projectiles
 
#14 ·
Soundguy, have you considered resizing the bullets? You're only talking 0.005. Get a Lee bullet sizer, lube 'em up with cast bullet lube, and shove 'em through.

It might work. :D
 
#17 ·
Yes it does. Has to. Could not use a 45 caliber pusher on a 243 bullet (could not not get it in the hole), and using a 22 rod on a 45 bullet would tend to make a 22 caliber hole in the bottom of the bullet.

http://leeprecision.com/custom-lube-and-size-kit/

You would have to have one custom-made, as they don't stock that size. A standard one is 27 dollars, and a custom one is 34, so it's only 7 bucks more.

I see it says to use case resizing lube on a jacket bullet, not bullet lube.
 
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#20 ·
Not "custom resizing lube". Where they say, "necessary to use LEE Resizing Lubricant, not Liquid Alox bullet lubricant.", they mean this stuff. Case lube. Because you're not squeezing lead, you're squeezing copper.

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/case-sizing-lube/

Logic says you could use anybody's case lube - RCBS, Dillon, Hornady, whoever.
 
#21 ·
You can use regular case lube, the STP thickness kind, I have with good results. Or, CH-4D has a really good lube I think can be bought by itself. If I read the posts correctly Lee evidently offers one(?)

If you wanted to shoot cast there are some .321 molds available. A .320 or .319 sizing die would be about perfect I would think.
 
#23 ·
Yesterday and today I finished up the work with the old Mauser. I kept going up 1 grain at a time and when I got to 16 grs. I set up the chronograph. Average velocity was 1561 so that put me above my target velocity of 1500. I was pleased so it was time to put in the taller front sight and file it in. As pressure signs were still quite mild I decided what the heck, let's try 17 grs. of Unique. Boy was I surprised!! Pressure signs were still fine but the accuracy sucked down to about 5/8 in. for 3 rounds! Granted that was one group one time and off a front rest and butt bag and at only 50 yards but with my 61 year old eyes and open sights I was more than happy. Velocity averaged 1631 fps and energy came to 1454 fpe. The group was low and to the right so I took 4 strokes of the file off the top of the front sight and filed it to a round profile then sat down to shoot the last 4 rounds I had loaded. I ordinarily don't take pictures of groups because 99% of my shooting is with open sights and when compared to scoped rifles they aren't very impressive. This one, however, is a bit different. You can believe it or not, the last 4 rounds are in the 10 ring.



The oblong holes at 4 O'clock and outside the 5 ring and 7 O'clock in the 6 ring are from last week with a lot heavier load of H-4895 and the same bullet. The throat and rifling are too worn to hang on to the cast bullet at that velocity. The tape at 5 O'clock in the 6 & 7 ring are the first three shots before I filed in the front sight. Since then I've shaped the sight to a correct profile, cold blued it and re-installed it back in the rifle. I'm ready....for what I don't know but I'm ready!!
 
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