J. P. Sauer & Sohn, Suhl Drilling

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by HazNavy, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. HazNavy

    HazNavy New Member

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    Looking for information on a piece that I just inherited from my father. The gun appears to be a SBS 12 gauge with a rifle barrel of unknown caliber mounted below.

    Markings are as follows: J. P. Sauer and Sohn, Suhl on each SBS barrel,
    “Fluid – Steel – Krupp – Essen” running along top site line, “Manufactured for Charles Daly” along left and right aft trigger mounting points, barrel and trigger guard stamped with “Made in Prussia 97583” with several craftsman marks, "181" and two royal crowns.

    The rumor is that it belonged to my great great grandfather Schulz, who came to the US from Danzig (then Prussia) in the 1880’s.

    I would like to restore the gun, and it needs it, should I send back to SigSauer? Any information would be greatly appreciated for current valuation for insurance purposes. Thank you.

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  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    The proof marks I recognize are from the time frame of 1891 to 1939. Crown over the S is shotgun. Crown over the W is choked barrel. Crown over the U is Untersucht (Inspected). If there is a Crown over a N, that would be proofed for Nitro (smokeless) powder. If it ain't got one of them, I sure wouldn't shoot commercial ammo in it. Somewhere it should have a 60 or 65, near to the 12. 12 being the gauge and the other number being the chamber length in millimeters. 70mm is 2 3/4 inches, and that could be the size, but probably, being pre-war European, isn't.

    Anyway, it appears to be too new to have come here with Grandpa, but he could have bought it when he got here, wanting something from the Old Country.
  3. HazNavy

    HazNavy New Member

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    Appreciate the information Alpo. 48 year time span, anyway to narrow it down? As far as an estimated value in the current condition, any ideas? I need to insure before I send it up to New England for restoration. Thank you very much.
  4. dianalv

    dianalv New Member

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    From what I know, you've got a good one there. Been looking for a Suhl .22 rimfire in good condition for awhile. Great shooters.

    Beautiful gun.
  5. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    A little bit more information. From the Blue Book.

    Charles Daly Drilling:
    12, 16 or 20 ga.s and 25/20 WCF, 25/35 WCF or 30/30 WCF cal., 3 barrel combination gun, extractors, double triggers, engraved action, select walnut, mfg. by both Linder and Sauer. Linder mfg. guns are extremely rare - very few specimens are to be found domestically. Sauer guns were not marked for grade, but rather had three levels of engraving which determined the grade. Most Sauer guns had a tang mounted aperture rear sight and a separate rifle cock and were sidelocks. Disc. 1933.

    From the engraving on yours, it is the lowest type, referred to as "Superior Quality". Values ran from 1200 dollars for 60% up to 3000 dollars for 100%, in my book which is six years old, so the prices are about 8 years out of date.

    So, a little more info, and it cut the time frame by six years. Plus it gives you three possibles for the rifle caliber.
  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Also, all three rifle calibers were invented in 1895, so would not have been in foreign guns until maybe 97 at the earliest. That knocks at least another six years off the time frame.
  7. HazNavy

    HazNavy New Member

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    Thank you very much for the informaton Alpo.....restore for heirloom sake and passing on more than value. Really appreciate the time and effort.
  8. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    HazNavy, I knew nothing about proof marks until reading these and other post by Alpo. However, as for dating your gun Prussia ceased to exist in about 1918 and while J.P. Sauer built guns long after 1918 I would think they would be marked Germany after that date. Just a guess. I have included pictures of my gun which also was made in Prussia and the rifle caliber is 38-55 Winchester. I think mine is a diamond grade and I paid $3,500.00 for it about 10 years ago. I have shot several boxes of 2 3/4 shells through it killing many a pheasant and several 38-55 hand loads killing just rocks. As you can see mine is a side lock and it has cocking indicators.

    I would hope you would reconsider refinishing or refurbishing your gun. In my view like mine yours has a lot of character and yours metal and case colors are much nicer than mine but I think my wood is a bit better condition than yours. If you want a new gun go buy one, I am sure it would be a lot cheaper than trying to make this one look new and in my opinion all it would do is decrease its value. You have very fine old Drilling which I think is pronounced drie ling. drie in German is the number 3.

    Also you are much better with a camera than me.

    Ron

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009
  9. HazNavy

    HazNavy New Member

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    Ron,

    Thank you very much! Your drie ling is exquisite! I will reconsider the refurbishing based on your opinion and would love to hunt this piece as I am tired of carrying my not so light Belgiun Browning Light 12. Thanks for the information.

    Tod
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