Jew,Christian, Mormon, a childs question

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by dartswinger, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. Caneman

    Caneman Active Member

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    Too bad we can't have a free discussion on this issue, even if some get hurt feelings, as it would be better to have someone be saved for eternity at the expense of being hurt in the short term...

    But I think if you read scripture carefully, and look at Christian church history, there are a few issues that always seem to come up and distinguish Christianity from all other beliefs:

    1) Jesus Christ is uncreated and eternal God. He has always existed in eternity past, present, and eternity future. Nobody or nothing made Jesus Christ, He is uncreated, and was not made from any substance. Not sure how anyone could justify that they are a Christian if they do not worship Jesus Christ as God who is both uncreated and eternal.

    2) God, who is Jesus Christ, died on the cross as a sacrifice for all of our sins, it is a free gift of grace to receive this forgiveness, so that we are now acceptable to God and given His righteousness (also a gift). Not sure how anyone can justify that they are a Christian if they believe that Jesus' death on the cross can't forgive some sins, and/or that you have to do certains acts to earn righteousness in God's sight.

    There are other issues to consider regarding Chrisitianity, but from my experience the two above always the central core issues.

    I thought perhaps that the thread constrainsts had changed in this forum, and we would be able to discuss issues objectively, and with facts, but I am afraid that this still not the case so I am done here.
  2. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I would think you would be thrilled that you can come here and express your faith openly the way you do. I would challenge you to go to ANY other forum and attempt to have these discussions and see just how long they will last before the plug gets pulled. There MUST be moderation on every issue whether we like it or not. There are some things that I could say about some religions that wouldnt go over very good anywhere, but I dont do it. But, this place is probably a minority when it comes to allowing religious discussion and actually having that discussion without it going south continuously. There is hardly another subject that can get as heated and Terry does well to maintain this forum. So, enjoy what it is. Like I said, I challenge you to find one better. All you will find is people screaming and bashing and heated discussion, not praying for each other and respect. But, if thats not good enough for you, I understand. We all want for people to know the truth. All you can do is post the truth and pray that it is received.
  3. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    things dont get discussed objectively because the discussion objective is to ridicule and make some feel better about their own miserable POS views by being a bully and denying any good from anyone not of the same exclusive brand logo they are
  4. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    And you will be the arbiter of whose views are pos? You have your beliefs and if someone believes differently their views are pos. OK, Now I get it.

    As soon as someone says they believe there is only one way someone may be saved, you label that as hate. But I would suggest to you that your comments on this thread have been more hateful than those of anyone who believes differently.

    Those of us believing that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ's works alone, are espousing the tenets of Christianity as expressed in Holy scripture. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with the Bible, AND you're denying the very words of Jesus Christ Himself.

    If you believe differently, that's fine, we could have a discussion. But you wont discuss. You just go off on a tirade against every denomination of the Christian church, "brand" as you call it, that you've ever encountered or heard of. Just go back and reread my original comment on this thread, then reread your response to it, then tell me who was intolerant.

    Christians don't condemn anyone. Those who don't accept Christ are condemned already. It's not like we are "better" people by the worlds standards. It's like the entire world was drowning in the ocean and Christ reaches down to rescue all who will take his hand. If we see some refusing to take it and we warn them that they are drowning, you call us hateful.

    What has happened on this forum, is that some will make statements regarding certain beliefs with which others may not agree. But as soon as some Christian professes the Gospel (the good news that Christ has come to save us), we are labeled rude, hateful, insulting, and intolerant, then censored.

    I am perfectly capable of discussing my faith in a civil manner, with anyone of any faith. That's what reasonable people have done for ages. But I'm not permitted to do so because just to express my beliefs is considered insulting and hateful. And yet others can slip in their little comments about the merits of certain religions unchallenged. How fair is that?
  5. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    ROMT so far i've posted some of the replies i've had in the mod's area

    POS views include

    "only my brand of Christianity is valid "

    "that all non brand x should be wiped out"

    that brand x says brand y is not Christian and i'll report you to the DHS is you say they are again ( why DHS ?? they have a division of religous protection? or this a threat to screw up my visa)

    then there where the emails

    some to me , some to a church i posted a pic of that i attend maybe 3 times a year

    took the minister there all night to figure it was me that he was told about

    seems i am a secret mormon , who hates baptists and everything baptist

    i'm still waiting for copies of the ones sent to the head of the baptist union here so i'll know what they where about soon

    POS ?

    yeah i call these acts POS

    as for not condeming folks i seen enough condemnation here to last a lifetime

    frankly i've had a gutfull of the cowards here

    call names and bully then run and cry for protection like redwing and some other low gutless mutts we've had here

    big and brave behind a keyboard but when he realises i am coming has run and told cops all over i threatened him , no i stated i'll get a apology ..

    but now i threatened to harm him according to the BS i have

    no proof but thats ok as he's a good old boy and of the right faith i guess

    and i'm just a scumbag non christian cause i tryed to stop folks jumping on folks who do way more than any other group i ever seen out this way

    by their deeds shall ye know them

    i now know a few here are lowlife complaining liars
  6. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Wait, I'm confused. You're saying you received those comments as pm's on TFF??? I'd like to see the exact word for word messages. If that's true, they came from trolls, we know they exist. I can't imagine any regular contributor to TFF sending you this crap.
  7. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Nothing at all wrong with stating what YOUR church believes, ROMT.
    The problem enters when you decide that you have studied all there is to know about church XX, and then list the things wrong with them, and proclaim that they are lost. Or proclaim that they are not Christian.
  8. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    ROMT, you would not BELIEVE the PM's that mod's get here.
    I have been SOUNDLY cursed multiple times.
  9. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    ROMT i've a msg abusing a mod here posted on my minus account wall that i'm locked out of , i cant remove it i can change it as minus got scared i'd delete all i had posted and so locked me out so not to loss the traffic my posts have made

    jack404.minus.com you can look , i'm locked out of my own data


    some folks think if they can find a post by you, they can go there and drag up stuff no-one knows about there and its all good

    i've spent all morning answering phone calls from posts made by folks calling me out

    its quite a crap storm here today ..

    if i'm still a member later on today its due to the decent folks here ...

    so if this crap is Christian works i want out .. and nothing to do with anyone who claims to be a Christian

    i get less attacks from the islamists here

    yes i am mighty ticked , but hey what do i expect , defending those low life pretenders ..

    i'm bad .. but yet not one of ya's will stand up and be a man and own up to the crap

    so i'm in front that way way in front
  10. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Let me tell you a story, ROMT, that might help you understand why bashing of other Christian groups is not allowed.

    I worked for years with a guy, car pooled with him in fact, who was Catholic. The Church of Christ folks at work were merciless on him, constantly attacking him because he was Catholic, and Catholic's were not Christians, they worship Mary instead of Jesus, etc. etc.

    One night on the way home, he asked me why they picked on Catholics so much. I told him it is due to some of the Catholic doctrine, and he asked what doctrine. I singled out Ex Cathedra, just for an example, and he did not recognize the term. I told him that it meant when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra, he speaks with the voice of God, and is incapable of speaking an error.
    He sat there for a minute with his eyes wide, then said "Who the HELL believes that?"

    This man was as much a Christian as any person I have ever met.
    He was a Catholic because his parents were Catholic, and he had been career military. He said that no matter where in the world he was, he could go in a Catholic church on Sunday and knew what to expect, so would feel right at home.

    I have never found a church anywhere that I felt everyone in it was lost.
    None.
    I have never found a church anywhere that I felt everyone in it was saved.
    None.

    So we do not bash churches; they are indeed imperfect, and they are filled with imperfect people, and they ALL have doctrine that is incorrect.
    That is the human condition.
    If anyone feels the need to straighten out those false doctrines, they need to do so in person with the church involved, not in a discussion group where they attack members of that church, proclaiming them to not be REAL Christians.
  11. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Looking for the perfect church? You will never find it. Once YOU walk in, it is no longer perfect.....
  12. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    I'm getting that old deja vu feeling again Terry. We've been down this road a few times my friend. Here's why I keep getting involved in this discussion. I understand your position as a moderator and have no problem with not even getting into this subject again except for the fact that both you and Jack feel compelled to speak in such glowing terms about a few "sects" (not my first choice of words) that it almost sounds like an endorsement. This statement you make:

    "I have never found a church anywhere that I felt everyone in it was lost.
    None.
    I have never found a church anywhere that I felt everyone in it was saved.
    None."

    is what I have a problem with. I can accept the second part of it about never finding a church where everyone was saved, with no problem. But I find it incomprehensible that a Christian pastor would say they've never found a church where everyone was lost.

    Without naming names, you and I both know that a few religions so indoctrinate their members in their ideology that there is zero chance of there being a single member that is unaware of what their church teaches, and I can say without fear of being overly judgmental that if anyone accepts those doctrines, they are indeed lost. I can provide a list of what those damning doctrines are but I am already deeper into this discussion than I ever intended to be. Some pretty hateful and insulting things have already been said on this thread which prove the wisdom of your forum policies. So I'll make you a deal. Since I can't stand to let certain comments by without challenge, I'll just stay off this particular forum before you have to ban me. Of course you know this is nothing personal and I'll keep in touch with your privately for any doctrinal discussions.
  13. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    I've had and still do have death orders from islam
    i have a statement from 3 baptist ministers that i should be locked up for life, or euthanized for my beleif on gays ( they also want to rewrite the bible to take out all the sin so everything is AOK )
    and i've had the catholics on my case after someone told a heap of em i hate catholics ( not true at all but causeed a stir )

    these are main stream religions

    i can show video or written statements in the media to prove the above

    this sect you talk about

    never once heard any of them talking about killing or attacking anyone

    they aint promoting sin as normal

    and they aint demanding people like me who oppose that be locked up or killed

    funny that ...

    you talk of main stream religions as soon as anyone talks about their religion ( knowing all religions are man made ) as the only right one , they are lost

    the bigotry against all others set in and away we go
    ready for a holy war to kill all them sects and pretenders

    arh that old time religion , nothing like it eh ..
  14. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    We will just have to agree to disagree, ROMT.
    MANY people go to church XX because they were raised in it, their friends and family go there, and in their hearts they do NOT accept all of that churches doctrine.
    I have never found a church (of any size, at least) where this was not the case.
    I am, of course, omitting tiny groups of idiots like the Westboro Baptist 'church', where I find it incomprehensible that someone takes part in a group like this without fully believing it.
  15. 45nut

    45nut Active Member

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    Was not Jesus called the rock of offense? Every Mormon I've ever known are good moral family oriented people. Which is why I think people are drawn to their church. Paul says that to add to or subtract from the Bible is a no no. I know about the canonization and all it entailed and some find fault in the process. I accept what the early church designated as the Bible.

    So, extra Biblical writings that are held up as Holy and Divinely inspired are a sign to me that a church's theology may be veering off course and I take appropriate precautions.

    If I had 3 prophecy's, I would judge the second and third by the first. If you did that with the bible, book of mormon and the pearl of great price, it would be very interesting. see here
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