Jew,Christian, Mormon, a childs question

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by dartswinger, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. 45nut

    45nut New Member

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    My Mr. rhoads, since this is a FIREARMS forum, why have you only posted in the religious discussion section??

    I don't own a copy of The Apocrypha since I"m not Catholic and it's not required reading for Protestants.

    Early Church, those believers during the EARLY and formative years until the Canonization of the Bible, and don't blame King James, it was done way before that: Thus, while there was a good measure of debate in the Early Church over the New Testament canon, the major writings were accepted by almost all Christians by the middle of the 3rd century

    What's your favorite .22 LR rifle & pistol/revolver? Do you like black powder weapons or AR's & AK's?
  2. KenV

    KenV Former Guest

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    I'm a Mormon and I'll be happy to answer. My personal savior is Jesus Christ.

    For the record, Mormons believe that Jesus worked his atonement for all of mankind in Gethsemane, on the cross, in the tomb, and with his resurection. Because of his atonement, and ONLY through his atonement all mankind may be saved from the effects of mortality, which include death and sin.

    In summary, I and almost all Mormons believe the following concerning Jesus Christ:
    1. He was was born of a virgin named Mary, wife to Joseph, in Bethlehem of Judeah.
    2. He grew to manhood in Galilee
    3. He was baptized by John, the son of Zechariah
    4. He preached for three years, performing numerous miracles during his ministry.
    5. He organized a church, led by 12 apostles whom he personally ordained.
    6. He suffered for the sins of all mankind in the Garden of Gethsemane
    7. He was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin and given to the Romans to be crucified
    8. He was He rose on the third day after his crucifixion
    9. After his crucifixion he appeared to Mary, his apostles, and to many others
    10. After many days he ascended to heaven promising to return in glory

    So what part of the above makes Mormons not "true" Christians?
  3. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Cheers Ken
  4. KenV

    KenV Former Guest

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    Almost, but not quite accurate. Let's quote the Mormon's 8th article of faith correctly:

    We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God

    Keep in mind that there are literally hundreds of different translations of the Bible. Not all are correct. Some are downright corrupt. That is what that "translated correctly" phrase is referring to. Many versions of the Bible are acceptable, but the KJV is the official "Mormon Bible" in English. In German the official version is the Luther Bible. Indeed, the Book of Mormon testifies of the Bible and that it contains the Word of God.

    If you believe all Bible translations are correct and "true" merely by the fact that they are labelled "The Bible", you are welcome to that belief. Mormons don't share it.

    Since the Mormon church holds the copyright to the other three books they consider scripture, the Mormon church controls the translation of those scriptures. Thus there is no issue of those being "translated correctly".
  5. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Ken , as stated i'm not a fan of any organised religions

    but its not a brand that matters

    Christ as your savior and doing your best to follow his instructions is all that matters

    in my book anyway :)

    i see Your brand of folks , and i'm happy to see em

    cause they see me in a similar way , they dont agree my "brand" but its what i do that they assess

    i'm open to anyone believing what they wish if it dont impose on anyone and on the whole does good and teaches Salvation by Christ what comes after is open to interpretation

    but i'll wager i'll be Toasting my Mormon friends come Glory , they may be having some healthy fruit drink while i have a beer , but hey each to their own that way too ..
  6. RYANINMICHIGAN

    RYANINMICHIGAN New Member

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    Rejection of the The holy trinity being the one main difference that makes your faith not Christian but who am I to say..
  7. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    i've never known Christ to say you must come to the father via the holy trinity

    he who beleives in me shall be saved

    the me was Jesus , not a Holy Trinity ..

    you need to reread your Bible , it'll set you straight

    the trinity is what sets us up as a whole

    but it aint the path ..


    now theres another

    25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was such a violent earthquake that the foundations of the prison were shaken. At once all the prison doors flew open, and everyone’s chains came loose. 27 The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself because he thought the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul shouted, “Don’t harm yourself! We are all here!”

    29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

    31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. 34 The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household.


    no mention of the trinity there only Christ eh same throughout the Bible

    salvation through Christ ,

    later when youra bit more mature you get teaching about the trinity

    but salvation is through Christ ..
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  8. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

    10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

    “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
    and every tongue shall confess
    to God.”
    12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.


    RYAN is your so called moral high ground really that high ? its not correct , not even close mate , take a good look at the Good Book , read it , feel it , it is there to guide not condem same as Jesus ..

    cheers
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  9. RYANINMICHIGAN

    RYANINMICHIGAN New Member

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    I have no moral high ground. I am just stating what I was taught. Jesus was God plain and simple. I don't judge anyone for what they believe in the end we all have our own conversation with God. I have met many Mormons that seem like nice folks I will leave it at that.
  10. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    but they aint Christian ..

    i'm sorry for you , that branding and labels and bad teachings and bigotry have ruined what could have been ,

    I'll pray for folks to find the truth , and for them to get understanding , as i think we are all lacking in this in many ways

    so ok dont read the Good Book , you know better already ??

    but again i suggest you do read it and try to find where it mentions the trinity in salvation

    thers the trinity of Faith the whole world heaven earth bit

    but salvation i think you'll find is only through Christ and if someone accepts Christ as their savior

    not a lot past that matters , yes they have to live as Christ commanded

    but if someone is saved by Christ then what brand of religion they follow dont really matter do it ?

    we're all the same then

    or did Christ really not mean what he said

    as thats the only way you can be correct ..

    sorry read your Bible and find the truth
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  11. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Judging another denomination is not allowed here, Ryan. We are not here to finger-point and say YOU are not Christian, and YOU are not Christian because you don't discuss the Holy Spirit, or because you do not have a foot washing service, or because you do not handle snakes. There is one judge: Jesus Christ. No man comes to the father but those he chooses; end of story.
  12. flboots

    flboots Member

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    Remember this is America, Freedom of religion. Most of us have fought for this right. A person has a right to believe and practice their beliefs how they want. As long as its not shoved upon others.
  13. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    then i suggest we look at freedom of religion , for those that qualify as a true Faith system and not something that hides behind the name of religion , but is more political and business than faith.

    though not a fan of the doctrine of Mormonism , should not the fpeople of that faith be allowed to go on with how they are without the rest of Christianity slinging crap and accusations ??

    you can only honestly do so as a Christian when the folks have proven themselves NOT Christian and by every definition

    follower of Christ's teachings
    One who gives their life to Christ
    One who accepts eternal salvation through Christ , the majority of mormon folks would qualify , foibles aside... like any group ..

    peter and paul both wrote that folks had different ways to come to christ and that these had made churches that he worried about but that the people accept Christ Jesus as their savior he could not condem

    so then who are you to say who is and who is not a Christian ??

    By their Deeds shall ye know them is the rule of thumb taken from the Good Book

    and any look see and you'll find the majority of those folks pass that test too

    yeah as stated in my first post , biggest scammer i ever knew was one but he took everyone equal opportunity ,

    you get good and bad in all the main faiths

    like every where as faiths are made up by people and the religous part too ( ceremony and doctrine )

    and people screw up

    like you have

    s'ok we all screw up

    God forgives.. ;)
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  14. KenV

    KenV Former Guest

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    If belief in "The Holy Trinity" is what defines a Christian, then you are absolutely right. Mormons are "not Christian". But using that definition, LOTS of folks who believe in Christ and who worship Christ are "not Christian." Although you are welcome to that definition, please consider that it might be more than a bit narrow.
  15. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    KenV , you get this much ?
  16. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    If you don't have enough faith in God's protection to handle rattlesnakes and drink draino, you ain't a Christian.
    And I have scripture for that, too:
    Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
    17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
    18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


    As I said; Jesus Christ is the judge - not me, not you.
  17. RYANINMICHIGAN

    RYANINMICHIGAN New Member

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    I am not judging anyone.
  18. KenV

    KenV Former Guest

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    ALL the *#$! time, and not just in some obscure web forum. Even the major media jumps on this bandwagon. For example, Romney's "not a Christian" either.

    And the folks that declare Mormons to be "not-Christian"? These folks will insist they are "not judging" and "not standing on higher moral ground", while simultaneously smugly declaring millions of people to be damned to hell fire for all eternity.
  19. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    yeah thats gotta suck

    i'm reminded of hans faust a civil servant in wartime germany say how he did not judge or condem anyone , jews had to be wiped out and so he helped , just following instructions ...

    hans woke up one day facing a russian who decided germans where the latest sub class took him 20 years to get home

    see they never see the wrong until its done against them , then they play the victim and still its not their fault

    they dont judge , they just help wipe out as many as they can

    and i thought i copped it tough for being hunter who makes his own hootch ( not a Christian if you hunt and give meat away on the sabbath and definately not a Chrsitian cause i have a still , and it varies if i'm a Christian cause i'm a veteran , some say yes some say not possible )

    but i am a bit outside the mainstream

    But you folks heck .. seen enough here in the past couple years to get a real wake up

    here in the bush mormons are regarded like salvation army

    a general high level of respect for who they be and what they do and who they help

    so this is a bit new to me , and frankly rather disturbing that its so prevalent

    but i know i'll never see these folks who are against you out in the deep dessert here or weird backwaters somewhere where i think the only white fella for miles is me and lo and behold i run into some Mormon doc or health worker helping out some folks out in the real boonies

    dont stop eh!

    cause you'll be surprising a heap ( and pissing off a heap ) come Glory

    and i'm all for a big stir and upset of those who know so much ;)
  20. targetacqmgt

    targetacqmgt New Member

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    What?? LDS do NOT believe in another "christ" We believe in the same one you do- the one who sweat blood for all of our sins in the "Garden" and died on the cross. We believe in the God the Father that you do. We also study the KJV deliegnetly in sunday school. KJV book 1 says "out the mouth of two witnesses shall all things be proved." The Book of Mormon is simply the second witness to our saviors mission to the world-no more or no less. Just saying.:)
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