Jew,Christian, Mormon, a childs question

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by dartswinger, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. KenV

    KenV Former Guest

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    It is another urban myth.

    Mormons believe that humans can, by making and keeping covenants, become co-heirs with Christ in ALL that the Father has. This is a Biblical concept.

    Our Heavenly Father is a god. If his only begotten son, Jesus, is heir to ALL that the father has, Jesus must be a god. If we are co-heirs with Christ, then we can become like god.

    From there things get mighty urban mythy. The myth is that if humans become like god, each human will have their own world to be a god over. That is NOT Mormon doctrine and is utterly false.

    The doctrine is simply these two points:
    1. Christ is CERTAINLY heir to all that god has/is.
    2. We MAY become co-heirs with Christ in all that god has/is.

    The above is the extent of Mormon doctrine on this subject. Everything beyond that is popular (and generally false) myth.
  2. KenV

    KenV Former Guest

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    This is a bit short sighted, and certainly NOT Mormon doctrine.

    Mormons view salvation as being "saved" from the effects of death and sin. This is a HUGE gift offered by our Father and made possible by his son's atonement.

    But salvation is not the greatest gift of God. His greatest gift is the Biblical conept of becoming co-heir with Christ in ALL that our Father has.

    Mormons call this exaltation. Exaltation, like salvation, is a free gift offered to all and we are free to either accept or reject both gifts. To accept this greatest gift requires making and keeping sacred covenants. Making and keeping covenants generally leads to good behavior. But just as accepting the gift of salvation naturally leads to good behavior and is not a way to "earn" salvation, so making and keeping covenants leads to good behavior and is not a way to "earn" exaltation.

    And just as receiving the gift of salvation is not in any way a "reward" for good bahavior, so is recieving the gift of exaltation not in any way a "reward" for good behavior. Both are simply the natural outcomes of accepting gifts offered by a loving and merciful Father.

    Hope this clarified.
  3. KenV

    KenV Former Guest

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    That's fine. But may I ask a few questions?

    1. In your faith, who is Satan and how did he come to be Satan?
    2. What is Satan's relationship with the Father?
    3. Why is your view of Satan the "true Christian" view and the Mormon view of Satan the "non Christian" view?
  4. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I deleted this out of respect for Pastor Terry. To answer the question, I have no interest in debating the issue with you. I do not believe in your religion and have plenty of good reason not to.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  5. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    removed
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  6. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Deleted
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  7. RYANINMICHIGAN

    RYANINMICHIGAN New Member

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    You guys can't even agree on what you believe.
  8. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Mormons believe that humans can, by making and keeping covenants, become co-heirs with Christ in ALL that the Father has. This is a Biblical concept.

    Quite right Ryan. Also Ryan, it is impossible for a human to keep a covenant with God. In fact it is God that always keeps the covenant which is why he sent Jesus into the world which if we read form Hebrews 7:22
    Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant. So since Jesus was sent into the world then he is the one who makes the covenants, not us. Hebrews 10:16
    “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds. See, Jesus makes the covenant. Then, Luke 22:20
    In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. So here we see that it is Jesus blood that is the new covenant. So, if Jesus controls the covenant, and his blood is the covenant, that means he is the covenant.

    So if Jesus Christ dies as the new covenant then who am I to assume that I as a human can "Make or keep" a covenant with Jesus? That busts this theory. Our best works are merely trash so how in the world can we obtain a covenant because we deem our selves righteous. I am sorry but it isn't me that can fill that boot.

    Good job Ryan. A+ for you.
  9. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Also, one more question that my mind ponders,,, man my mind can race. If a human can achieve his own Kingdom? OK, hold that thought right there.

    Where does Jesus sit? He sits at the right hand of God's throne, Revelations tells me so. So, if Jesus resides at the right hand of God's throne, but mortal man gets his own kingdom to manage, then what the heck did poor old Jesus get. Holy smokes, that poor dude got grounded next to God for eternity and he was the one that paid the premium price on the cross. Man, Jesus got rooked in this belief system. If I were Jesus I would be mad. People calling him Satan's brother and the mortal's getting their own kingdom's and being god's (not capitalized IMO for this one) of their own kingdom when human's are condemned by our own choices. I will never ever subscribe to a falsehood like this one.

    Jesus saved me from myself and I only have him to thank because of the grace of God. The Holy Spirit called me, Jesus cleansed me, and the Good lord knows me because of the cross that Jesus carried for all my sins. That is good enough for me and I know i don't deserve it.

    There's your church for the day. Glory be to God our Father in Heaven.

    Amen Jesus and thank you for saving me from my pitiful self.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  10. targetacqmgt

    targetacqmgt New Member

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    Yes He is Lord, but here is something to ponder recently in the news. Let us suppose Our Lord while on the face of the earth had a wife (he made eternal marriage covenant with) then not only is our Lord but he too can have that eteranal progression of a world to rule. Not to blasme: He would still be our sector "Proconsul" over the worlds we humans would populate. (At least you fellas-me I am likely to end a ministring angel (once resurrected) to YOUR world. These are thoughts not doctrine.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  11. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Pure utter nonsense.
  12. targetacqmgt

    targetacqmgt New Member

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    If you say so. :) But a good story line for a nonrelegious scifi novel.
  13. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    :dontknow:
  14. targetacqmgt

    targetacqmgt New Member

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    Ja it was tongue in cheek.;)
  15. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Oh. I'm a slow reader. And a slow shooter. :)
  16. targetacqmgt

    targetacqmgt New Member

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    Dis ist zeher gut- slow shooters don't waste ammo-one shot one kill. ME I do it with HE (if I have it) all I got to do is get close:D
  17. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Wow. I've been away for a couple months and see people are still attempting to have the same discussion. There is nothing wrong with that, but some seem to feel that truth must yield to ignorance to spare injury to the delicate sensibilities of a few among us. I've been down this road before on this forum, and yet I still can't understand why people are so thin skinned about what others believe.

    Any false religious teaching is apostasy, so naturally if there is a belief that doesn't square with my understanding of scripture, I will believe it is from an apostate religion. What's so wrong with stating it? I know for a fact that many wont agree with my beliefs, and if they want to label me apostate it wont hurt me a bit. Why should it? My faith is not damaged by the opinion of others. The thing is, to stifle such discussions may be doing a grave disservice to some. Do not doubt for a minute that many people in this world will spend eternity in hell. With so many conflicting beliefs, some beliefs must be false. Discussions like this may be the vehicle by which someone might see the truth.

    With all that in mind, let me just say that a prerequisite of being a born again follower of Jesus Christ is knowing His Father. If you don't know the Father, you don't know the Son. His Father is the one eternal, omnipotent, omnicient, and omnipresent creator of all that is. To believe otherwise is to disqualify oneself as a Christian. Many believe in the man Jesus Christ, but deny His divinity, such as Muslims. Obviously Muslims are not Christian. Likewise, many claim a belief in God but deny His attributes as revealed in His Word. GOD THE FATHER WAS NOT A CREATED BEING. Teaching that He was, is heresy and blasphemy.

    I will not pronounce damnation or salvation on any individual, but I will proclaim the truth of holy scriptures and the curse it places on any teaching which denies that truth. Anyone following a 19th century false prophet/science fiction writer is not a Christian. I don't care what label they place on themselves. This is my belief. If you disagree, that's fine. It's your right. No reason to be offended.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  18. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."
    -Jesus

    Double D is right on this. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. The marriage covenant is "until death," not "for all eternity."
    Jesus addressed this, and Matthew recorded it. Check out chapter 22.
  19. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    ROMT;

    We agree that many Mormons, JWs, and many other self-proclaimed Christian groups teach "a gospel other than the one" taught by Christ's apostles. (Cf. Galatians 1:8-9)

    It is not the official policy of TFF that you cannot say that it is a different gospel. If it weren't different, they wouldn't come to forums and such to try to argue that theirs is a mainstream Christian belief system because they wouldn't have to. Does anyone here know my denominational background? Terry may remember it because I've told him, but I'm not sure anyone would otherwise know. Any idea if I'm Baptist or a Mennonite? Lutheran? Calvinist? Pentecostal or Anglican? Among those groups, practices and understandings are sometimes a bit different, but we all believe the same core stuff.

    The LDS church has some different core. It is a different gospel. They know it and admit it openly. They tell us that the gospel that has been presented to us has been corrupted and is different than what Jesus taught, that the Bible has been mistranslated and misinterpreted for centuries. They believe that our gospel is a bit off.

    It's not surprising, then, that we would believe their gospel is off. We all agree that there are differences.

    The policy here at TFF is that you can't tell anyone that their religion is a "cult" or that they themselves are "not Christian." That's when it moves from a discussion of differences to a condemnation of people. That's what is not allowed.

    Seems like a minor difference, perhaps, but it is a major thing in sustaining a community.
  20. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Amen

    Also, here's something that occurred to me regarding this nonsense that Christ was united in an earthly marriage to a particular woman. This would make Christ an adulterer, since the church is His bride. He will be married only once.
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