Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    astute observer
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (12/5/02 11:34:43 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del All Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Hello everyone! I just discovered this forum, quite by accident! I am a serious collector of percussion sporting and target rifles, particularly those by Upper Midwestern makers(Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana, etc.). I am a published author of both books and magazine articles on the subject and have fairly extensive knowledge. I also have extensive reference material, including some unpublished material.

    If anyone has any guns that they would like help identifying, or if anyone wants information on a specific maker, there is a good chance that I can help. C J

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4786
    (12/6/02 8:13:37 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Hello CJ & astute observer, welcome to The Firearms Forum. It's great to have you with us. We appreciate you offering your expertise.

    We have room for a "Smoke-Pole Specialist"

    Post as much and as often as you like, and by all means anyplace you like.

    Again, it's good to have you with us.



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    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
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    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3126
    (12/6/02 10:24:17 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Hi CJ.....Welcome to TFF!

    WOW! Thank you for your very kind offer.....we can sure use you around here. Always great to have our own expert in this very difficult area.

    We've got some very good guys in metalic cartridge rifles, pistols, and in shotguns......but we can sure use your help here!

    If you'd be so kind, would you also check the "Ask The Pros & What's It Worth" and the "Curio & Relics" Fourms? Sometimes people ask questions about bp firearms there.

    ......and don't feel that you have to limit yourself to just those forums.....your opinions are welcome in all of our other forums (whether you know what you're talking about or not.....that doesn't stop the rest of us! )

    GREAT TO HAVE YOU ABOARD!!!

    Edited by: Xracer at: 12/6/02 10:31:21 am

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1985
    (12/6/02 10:31:53 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Welcome to the Forum. We need a BP expert around here.

    I examined an old Hacker Martin built rifle a few years ago. I know why they called him Hacker.

    BTW, the rifle sold for $6,000.

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1535
    (12/6/02 2:32:52 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Yup, Astute -

    Always need all the help we can get! As Xracer said - we all voice our opinions, whether we know what we're talking about, or not!

    There's a fair to middlin' bunch of charcoal burners haning around the board, here. Even have one o' them new in-lines taking up space in my gun vault. Never got into the old collectables, however, always admired the craftsmanship in them and the way they just naturally hung when shouldered.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    astute observer
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (12/6/02 6:28:43 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! I don't claim to have all the answers.....this is one field in which even the "experts" are still learning! And yes, Shooter.......they didn't call him "Hacker" for nothing! LOL

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 6577
    (12/9/02 11:53:16 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Welcome CJ!

    Ditto what the others have said!

    Talk at ya soon!

    Tac
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    Model41SW
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (12/11/02 5:48:05 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Kentucky and Plains type rifles....old ones!
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    Hello,
    In searching for information on black powder shooting I too have just discovered this forum. So........, I am hoping to discover more information about my first black powder rifle that I just purchased a few weeks ago. It is a .36 cal cap and ball full stock rifle that appears very old, but in nice condition. On the side of the lock is engraved "HELWELL". This is the only identifying mark that I can find on it anywhere. Does anyone have any knowledge about this particular name and why it would be on the rifle? My area of collecting is not in the black powder area but I am anxious to learn. Thank you.

    Smokin Guns
    V.I.P. Member
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    (12/11/02 6:05:48 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Hello...!
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    and Welcome! to ya Model41SW...I'll wait with ya for an answer, i'm just learnin' myself...

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4842
    (12/11/02 6:32:29 pm)
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    Hello Model41SW, and welcome to The Firearms Forum. Check back often and post alot. We're glad to have you with us.



    Quote:
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    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
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    astute observer
    Member
    Posts: 18
    (12/11/02 7:03:51 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hello...!
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    H. ELWELL is a fairly common name on percussion locks during the mid-19th Century. This is the maker of the lock, not the entire rifle. Many makers during that period bought locks from those who specialized in locks, rather than making one themselves. No in-depth study of lock makers has thus far been done, but the ELWELL locks are more often seen on Eastern guns. I had one on a rifle by J. C. GRUBB PHILADELPHIA. The rifle maker's name will normally appear on the top barrel flat, and if small or faint can be hidden by dirt or rust. There are however, a significant number of unsigned rifles around. Those guys had no idea that anyone would be collecting their work 150 years later.

    TYRVR
    V.I.P. Member
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    (12/12/02 1:38:36 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hello...!
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    I knew Mr.Martin, he was a self educated man, in rifle building and life, it is very easy to produce slick rifles when someone else makes the barrel, turns and inlets the stock, casts the parts,makes the lock, has a video or DVD detailing each step from A to Z.
    Hacker Martin made his tools, his screws, and his stocks-locks and barrels. He had no master builder to apprentice under, no shop equipment such as boring and rifling benches bought from a dealer,just a love of the old guns,and the old ways.
    I think it petty of those who would laugh at Mr.Martin or his work. He was a good man and deserving of respect. I also knew Mr.Wallace Gusler, I have heard him credit Mr. Martin several times as an influence on him early in his career.
    Perhaps Mr. Gusler's efforts are laughable to you also, but until YOU can do better, don't belittle someones efforts, or call yourself an "Astute Observer".
    LTS, I would not have thought you so shallow.

    B.T. Rivers
    DOWN WITH GRAVITY!

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4847
    (12/12/02 5:40:18 am)
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    Huh... whachu sayin' Ty? (said in my best Gary Coleman voice)



    Quote:
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    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
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    tuckerd1
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1407
    (12/12/02 12:38:00 pm)
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    TYRVR???

    After rereading I see!



    Edited by: tuckerd1 at: 12/12/02 12:41:19 pm

    Model41SW
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (12/12/02 3:49:06 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hello...!
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    Thank you, Astute!
    At the first opportunity I will re-check the name and look for the period that I missed. The top barrel flat will be given close scrutiny for the rifle maker's name. I figured that H(.)ELWELL was the lock maker's name but had no idea as to whom this might be. That would most likely date the rifle into the mid 1800's. Nice to know I have an oldie that is a "goodie". If I can find the rifle maker's name I will let everyone know.
    Mike

    astute observer
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (12/13/02 12:04:33 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Hello...!
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    Well TY, I will certainly admit that Hacker Martin was doing this work at a time when nearly no one else was. I have seen a number of his guns over the years...quite a variation in quality and I'm not sure why. Perhaps some were made while he was still learning, some during his prime, others when he was older and had failing eyesight. You may know more about that than any of us if you knew him. Wallace Gusler is a humble man in spite of his incredible skill. I've not met him personally but am well acquainted with Gary Brumfield, one of the other premier "Colonial Williamsburg" gunsmiths.

    As far as my not criticizing Hacker's work until I can do better....well, you might be surprised. But I have the luxury of a Bridgeport and a complete machine shop at my disposal. This is something Hacker never had. Please don't misunderstand me, I do not hold him in contempt by any means. But today there are hundreds of builders across the country whose work is clearly superior. He did the best he could with what he had to work with....the reason his guns fetch the prices they do today.

    TYRVR
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 212
    (12/15/02 2:45:55 pm)
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    The fact that you have assembled period guns should give you a better perspective on what an effort it was to build a rifle or pistol 50-60 years ago. No parts except salvaged items from originals, no one to ask how something was done. Your callous remarks may have been intended as light banter,I don't read minds,so I don't know, but please, don't ridicule those that brought forth the second golden age of American Longrifle building. They deserve respect and thanks.
    As to Mr. Martin, I first met him in the 1950's, he was a fixit-all man for a store in Appomattox Va. He and his wife lived in an old farm house near the James River, he repaired and built guns in an outbuilding. His wife was a wonderful Lady and a great cook, I can still remember eating beans with spring onions and cornbread on the porch washed down with spring water, listening to Hacker talking guns. The area around the house was filled with old cars, tractors, mowers and farm equipment of all kinds waiting for Hacker to get around to fixing them. He never had much in the way of luxury, just friends, I don't remember him ever owning a TV or even a radio, I'm not sure there was electricity in that old house. Hacker used old methods for doing everything, he welded on a forge,sharpened tools on a hand turned stone wheel, he had an old lathe that worked from a foot treadle, his drill press was mounted on a post, and you turned a handle to make it work.
    He is gone, but most contemporary long rifle builders owe a debt to the Hacker Martins and Wallace Guslers, the Don Davis', the Red Pharris' the Cecil Brooks, and others that built from love, not for self promotion , snobbery or effetism, a common trait found in most modern "Builders".

    B.T.Rivers

    astute observer
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (12/16/02 8:21:39 pm)
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    I certainly didn't come here intending to cause any trouble or make any enemies. But apparently , I inadvertently did so. Yes TY, it was a thoughtless comment on my part and I now regret making it. When shooter45 us made the remark about Hacker, I jumped on the bandwagon without further thought. I was wrong! If I had been a personal friend of Hacker Martin I am sure that I would have been as offended as you were. I hereby apologize.

    I agree to a point that some present day builders are very impressed with themselves....believing they possess "Godlike" qualities. I have met a few of those, but I still don't believe they are by any means a majority. Most of those that I know would tell you that they themselves are still learning...no matter how fine their work. And most of them are more than willing to share ideas and knowledge with anyone who has the interest. Not surprisingly, the really exceptional makers are among the most humble and personable. I know that the "other kind" are out there, and are easy to notice (they make sure that they are) but in truth I like to believe they represent a small minority.

    Even the gunmakers of 150 years ago were as diverse in individual skills, techniques, styles, and personalities as those of today. Some of them also thought a little too highly of themselves.

    TYRVR
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 213
    (12/17/02 11:36:39 am)
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    I am not your enemy, nor was I asking for an apology. I was merely making sure that no one faults a friend or belittles his efforts with impunity. Were you my friend, I would take the same action on your behalf. I have done this before, it is the main reason I do not post here,too many people feel it is okay to belittle others and their beliefs.

    Tac401
    Administrator
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    (12/17/02 7:10:21 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Hello...!
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    I have done this before, it is the main reason I do not post here,too many people feel it is okay to belittle others and their beliefs.
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    That may be your opinion TY, but I strongly disagree!

    The majority of folks who post here are not as you say,
    99% of the folks that post at this site are some of the
    finest people one could have the pleasure of conversing
    with and or know.

    You are entitled to your opinion, and others are entitled
    to theirs.

    The proof is in the pudding, this site speaks for itself as
    far as how folks are treated here, and in general.


    Tac


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    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5175
    (12/17/02 8:52:45 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Hello...!
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    Tye, some of what happened early on in the development of this site are no longer a problem.

    Like any place around we had our growing pains but have settled down to try and make this a place where anyone can come and feel welcome without being attacked.

    And yes I know you will defend your friends, feel the same way you do in that regards.


    TYRVR
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 214
    (12/17/02 9:12:54 pm)
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    TLynn and Tac: I do not wish to re-view past grievances, I saw a post that angered me, Mr.Martin was a friend. I responded and one of the people involved replyed, we discussed the matter and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed. I do not wish to start a new round of "He said-I said", My friends are few, I guard them as I would my life.

    B.T.Rivers

    Tac401
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    (12/17/02 11:09:33 pm)
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    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    astute observer
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (12/18/02 9:52:25 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: H. Elwell
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    The H. ELWELL mentioned as a lockmaker further back in this thread is most likely Henry Elwell, a Birmingham, England maker dating from 1838-1857.

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 2023
    (12/23/02 3:51:12 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: H. Elwell
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    AO, I think you nailed that one.

    Ty, sorry you took my post the wrong way. I wasn't demeaning Hacker, just making a statement. Remember the rifle sold for $6,000. I wouldn't consider that junk........would you ?????

    lovelyrita96
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/27/03 12:14:57 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Hacker Martin Rifle
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    I've been looking for information on Hacker Maratin rifles on the Internet (without too mich success up to now) and I came across this site.

    I have a Hacker Martin rifle that I would like to find out the value and how I might go about selling it.

    Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

    astute observer
    Member
    Posts: 34
    (1/30/03 5:27:42 pm)
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    I have sent Lovelyrita an e-mail reply with a contact that should be of help. Just thought I would let everyone know that I didn't "drop the ball" on this!

    CJ
  2. jgr1974

    jgr1974 New Member

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    zigzagg,

    just the guy i am lookin for! I put a post on earlier lookin for guns made in southern illinois area of the 1850-1860 period. I am a civil war reenactor trying to portray a southern illinois democrat who went south to fight for the confederacy! i would love to replicate a rifle from this region and period! could you help? you sad you have publishe books-any on this subject?


    thanks
    jeremy richardson

    email me at jgr1974@hotmail.com i don't check this sight regularly!
  3. Rich

    Rich New Member

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    astute observer,
    Thanks for your offer to educate. I'm looking for more information on a maker from West Virginia named Samuel Sherwood 1823 - 1900. Do you know anything about his work. I have a real nice 38 cal. full stock he made. I would like to know more about it and West Virginia makers.
    Thanks
    rich
  4. jamesed

    jamesed New Member

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    Since you have studied upper plains rifles extensivley I was wondering what would have been considered the maximum effective range of the rifles?

    Also did they use patched balls in rapid fire or did they just ram the lead ball down on top of the powder charge?

    Last but not least what was the standard load out in the ammount of ammo a frontiersman would have carried?

    I would kind of like to know as I have a .50 cal Hawken replica and while it is fun to shoot, I have not done any serious shooting with it.
  5. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    astute observer hasn't posted since November 2003. I suspect he isn't hanging around here anymore. Then again, maybe he's just lurking. :D

    Pops
  6. buzzardbait

    buzzardbait New Member

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    Hi everyone, I just found this forum and need some help. I have been thinking about buying a rifle but I cant find any info on it except what the owner says. The lock is marked JOSH GULCHER which I know who he was as I have another rifle with a Gulcher lock, but the barrel is marked D.T. Seeley Dunkirk, NY no.32x. I was told it was made for a gift for a NY senator way back when. Its in great condition really deep lands and grooves. Looks to be around 40 cal. I dont think it has ever been fired, no pitting or anything around the nipple, it looks period but I dont want to be taking by a fake. thanks for any help.
    Buzzard
  7. poco

    poco New Member

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    I have a longrifle with h elwell as warantar..This is a family heirloom that was said to belong to a relative and used in the 1700's.A person told me that the firing mechinism had been up=dated at some point .I might like to sell thisat some point.poco
  8. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Jamesed, on the Hawken style rifles, with patched balls, they were good to about 300 yds with a steady rest and a clean barrel, if the shooter did his job. But like anything, the power was dropping kind of fa st that range. Bigger animals or longer range meant bigger calibers, which is why they started making Hawkens in .54 and even up to .58 in the mid-1800s.

    As per the fouling on subsequent shots, they DO get tough to ram after 5 shots, or maybe more.

    I've read that a lot of frontiersman do like I do. I have a Flint Hopkins/Allen (Numrich) Minuteman, in ".45." MOST .45s use .440 balls. BUT the bore (land to land) on Numrich barrels were actually .437...

    So I carry two sized balls...with a CLEAN barrel, the most accurate load is a .440 ball with a .010 patch, which they would have called a 'tight ball." But after 3-4 shots, I almost have to hammer the rod home, so if I don't run a patch down, I switch over to a .435 ball, and accuracy opens up JUST a little...

    I kind of discovered this on my own, after I had purchased first the .440 balls (BEFORE I knew the bore size...) and then picked up some Speer .435 balls, but since then I've read they did it back then too...you used tight balls for the FIRST shot, then went to looser fits for subsequent. I even read there was a saying "Tight Balls, Lose Scalp, Loose balls, tight scalp!" You also have to experiment with patch thickness, you can get it from like .010 (thinner if you LOOK hard or make your own!) to like .025 or even thicker pillowticking. Too thick of a patch with even an undersized ball will act like a tight ball too...I only use .010, the .015 blue pillowticking just doesn't seem to work well in mine, even with the small balls, but I know guys who use the SAME size ball, but go from like .015 patches to .010 when the bore fouls, too.

    You recover the patches whenever possible to see whether or how it's burned, but ALSO to see if it's "cut" either by gasses or rifling...if it's cut regularly, it's probably too tight a ball or patch...


    Now with a Hawken, you MIGHT want to check the twist...MANY Hawkens had fast twists for conicals only, like 1:24 when most roundballs like SLOW twists, like 1:66. And some (most?)repros "split the difference" with like a 1:32 or 1:48 so you can fire both, but NIETHER is optimum for BOTH. (You check the twist by putting a tight patch on a cleaning jag, and count the revolutions of the cleaning rod down the bore, and divide by the length of the barrel...)

    If yours is faster, go with a "Minie" type conical, and you don't need a patch, and it will be faster to reload because it's undersized and goes down easily even when fouled, AND accurate, and has more power too, as the bullet is always heavier than a ball in the same caliber. Plus it would be historically accurate too, Minie type (hollow base) bullets were pretty common on the frontier by the early to mid 1850s, possibly a few years earlier...they were in use militarily before that, but not much.


    My son has a CVA Frontier carbine caplock in .50, and we have always used the 255 gr. Buffalo Bullets pre-lubed "Ballet," and it works FINE. You can get much heavier bullets for it, like up to 350-400+ gr, and saboted rounds too that are VERY accurate, but he was only 13 when we built it, and I thought it would be easier for him to shoot at the time with the lighter ballet. But in the meantime we found out it was very accurate with it to boot, and should be fine out to 150 or so on whitetails, and he killed a NICE young buck with it his first season he used it, with 95 gr. FFFg. Since he's away at college, I "steal" it now during ML season when it's raining.. :D
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2006
  9. slhurt

    slhurt New Member

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    What a great site! I hope that someone (i.e. Astute Observer) will help me identify some long rifles. I collect East TN and Southwest Virginia rifles and have run across this mark: B + N the "+" mark has a dot in the upper left quadrant and the upper right quadrant. The "B" and "N" are heavily scrolled.
    Additionally, I have one marked "J Young", about which I know nothing.

    Somehow, I have ended up with one marked "J Goodell" Olean NY"
    I know him to be named James Goodell, b. 1832, killed in an accident in 1893 when a horse drawn hearse was split asunder by a passenger train.
    I like to find the family info of these gunsmiths...does anyone have anymore info on J Goodell.

    Thanks for any help!
    Sallie
  10. joystick

    joystick New Member

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    I've never, joined a forum before, so not even sure I'm doing this correctly, but, here goes....

    I recently came into possesion of a j.c. grubb & co. (phila, pa) percussion rifle. my gunsmith measured it to be a 50 cal. how do i find out more about this firearm? Can't seem to find it in Flayderman's guide but noticed someone else mentioned having one.

    Any ideas or info?
  11. fsrifles

    fsrifles New Member

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    Hello everyone. I just found this site while searching for information on my gun. This looks like a very helpful site.

    I have an old percussion rifle in 32 cal. made by L. W. Ginzer. I do not know if it started life as a flintlock but the lock looks like a replacement made by Joseph Golocher since it does not fit perfectly. The only information I can find on the maker is that he was in Indiana. I have seen some people call this trpye of rifle a plains rifle and a Kentucky rifle. It has a short stock and it resembles a Hawkins. However, it has a Kentucky type patch plate and the barrel uses a pin rather than a wedge. I would like to know what this gun is considered and any information on the maker that can be shared.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
  12. Big ugly

    Big ugly New Member

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    If you can I'd like to see a pic. Also you may want to post a new thread instead of using this old on here.
  13. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Member

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  14. BobMilek

    BobMilek New Member

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    I've come into possession of a Kentucky Style percussion rifle, with an H Elwell lockworks. I am assuming the rifle maker was Daniel Newkirk (I think of Ohio), because the barrel is inscribed D * Newkirk in cursive on the top flat. Do you have any information on this gun maker?
    Bob Milek
    Thermopolis, WY
  15. quigleysharps4570

    quigleysharps4570 New Member

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    That very first post is the longest I've ever seen from a guest with no post showing...what's up with that Admin or Mods?
  16. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Member

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    Any info on a gunsmith by the name of Philip Schantz of Canal Fulton, Ohio. Do you know anything about a lockmaker who marked his locks with the initials R.B.? Any info would be appreciated.
  17. Uncle Miltie

    Uncle Miltie New Member

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    Hi Chip,

    Thought I'd post this info so others could see it as well:

    Philip Schantz was born in 1817 in Germany, and moved to Lawrence Twp OH at an undetermined time. He was listed in the 1850 census as having two boys, George (6) and James (3), born in OH. He had 2 employees, James Mason (15) and George Sipe (22). For the year of 1850 he is listed as making 100 rifles. He is not listed in the 1860 census, nor is he buried in the cemetery at Canal Fulton, so he might have given up gunsmithing and moved elsewhere, but a Jacob Schantz (aged 74) was buried there at the age of 71 in 1854; probably Philip's father, methinks. I have no clue what happened to George Sipe, but there is a James Mason listed as working in the Washington DC area in the 1870's; might be him.

    I have seen several rifles bearing locks marked R.B., but I have no clue who made them. My Schantz rifle has a Leman lock, so your lock was probably made by a supplier of parts. Thanks for forwarding picture of your rifle; have you shot it lately?

    Regards,

    Miltie.
  18. Uncle Miltie

    Uncle Miltie New Member

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    Hi Bob,

    I can locate no information on a D. Newkirk in my information on Ohio riflemakers. Your lock was made in NY state; perhaps the rifle was made there as well?

    Regards,

    Miltie.
  19. Uncle Miltie

    Uncle Miltie New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    Are you certain the name is Ginzer? If signed in script, it could be made by a 'smith named Lewis Ginger (1790-1870) who worked during the late flint era in New Paris OH (1825-1853) and Camden IN (1853-1870). There are several known flintlock arms signed by him. There were 8 different makers named Ginger working in IN.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Miltie.
  20. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    998
    Hello William--oops, I mean Miltie.
    Thanks for the info--I'll add it to my file--and I hope you found the photo comparing our two rifles interesting. Yes, I agree that the R.B. was a lock supplier or manufacturer. The info I have on my gun is that the lock was "made" by R.B. and I know many gunsmiths purchased locks from suppliers.

    No, I have not shot my rifle since last summer, but hope to get it to the range shortly. From what I can tell, It has a 1:60 to 1:66 twist--probably the latter--and I'm thinking a round bullet might be better than the sugarloaf bullets cast with the mold that came with my gun, particulary since it does not have a false muzzle. It's about .43 calibre. I did check out the distance from Fredericksburg VA to Canal Fulton--about 7 hrs. So, if I get it shooting well, I may make a trip up there for one of the meets. Hope all is well with you and , again, thank you for the information you've supplied me.
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