last ditch defense with 22 - AMMO?

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by Smokin Guns, Mar 10, 2003.

  1. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

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    paulbrown137
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (3/6/03 4:50:19 pm)
    Reply last ditch defense with 22 - AMMO?
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    obviously, our 22s would be the last weapon we pulled out of the safe or from under the bed if self defense was an issue. but what if it was all you had or ran out of everything else what ammo is the most destructive out of a 22??

    another rambling post

    paul

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3861
    (3/6/03 5:40:31 pm)
    Reply Re: last ditch defense with 22 - AMMO?
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    Hi velocity hollowpoints.......and run like hell!

    scarface
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (3/6/03 8:42:38 pm)
    Reply Re: last ditch defense with 22 - AMMO?
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    Personaly, I think .22RF is underrated as a defense round. I carry a walther P22 in my back pocket around the shop,partially for defense/mostly for stress relief. Walk out the back door and rattle off a few clips,clears the head. So after shooting 50 rds. aday for amonth I can put a clip in a small paper plate at 21ft so fast its scary. I've got a Glock 22 sitting on the desk,do not care which one if trouble came about. CCI Velocitors,would'nt want a face full of them.

    Packet
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 89
    (3/6/03 9:54:57 pm)
    Reply Re: last ditch defense with 22 - AMMO?
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    Actually, .22 rimfire is quite destructive if you dont try to push the range too far. On the up side, the low recoil makes it much easier to hold on target while shooting at a fast rate. I wouldnt want to be on the wrong end of one.

    weerwolf
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (3/7/03 7:00:26 am)
    Reply Re: last ditch defense with 22 - AMMO?
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    I would prefer a .22LR pistol over a .357 revolver for self defence any day. If you fire the .357 the recoil will kick your arm a half meter in the air. The .22 barely moves when fired. So you could easely fire 2-3 round into the guy in no time. Its also very accurate 5cm groups at 25meters takes only a few months of training.
    Size is also an advantage. Like with a Erma 62, that little gun is smaller then my cell phone. It still holds 7 rds in a mag.
    As for the ammo, don't know , I'dd say hollow points , but since these are illegal where I live, I'dd use softpoint, or SGB.

    Edited by: weerwolf at: 3/7/03 7:02:40 am

    Jbobin
    Member
    Posts: 35
    (3/7/03 10:06:56 am)
    Reply .22 defense
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    I am a big fan of the .22lr cartridge, but comparing a single hit of .357 mag to 2 or 3 hits of a .22 lr cartridge would not be a comparison at all, even using the Velocitor or Stinger rounds. A .357 has so much more energy, it would take entire magazine of .22s to equal a couple of hits with a .357. Additionally, my 4inch S&W Model 19 .357mag does not rise 19 inches upon recoil, because I hold it the correct way.

    I am not saying that the .22lr does not have defense capability, because I would keep my head down if someone were shooting at me with one. However, a drug crazed lunatic would likely not be stopeed by 3 body hits with a .22 (in general). I would default to my revolver loaded with .38 +P ammo, or try my SIG P226 9mm, which both have very manageable recoil, and much much more power than the .22lr.

    JB

    Turkey Creek
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (3/7/03 11:23:20 pm)
    Reply Re: .22 defense
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    A couple of things that may be overlooked in favor of the 22 is first one of safety to any innocent bystanders- less chance of the 22 exiting the target and carrying on to someone close by- also overlooked in gun wounds to humans is simply the physiological shock value- if you're shot you're shot and the mind doesn't have time to analyze whether the body has been hit with a big or small projectile- of course if you're dealing with someone whacked out of his mind on drugs this second point is moot
    "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

    stuporman
    Member
    Posts: 38
    (3/7/03 11:54:58 pm)
    Reply My last ditch .22 Ammo picks...Better than a .38!
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    Come to think of it, my 10 lbs of match grade steel barrel may make more of a defense play than a clipfull of .22...But if I was 10 feet away or more:

    Aguila Super Max HP
    Quick expansion, at 1700 frikin fps.
    as the French say "le ouche"
    has twice the energy of most .22 rounds.
    204 foot lbs!

    38 Special: 185 foot pounds
    9mm average load is about 300 foot lbs.
    .357 magnum is about 400 foot lbs.

    So, I hit you about 4 times with my hot .22, and its like twice with a .357mag.
    On paper, that is. Missing is the psychological effect of eardrum busting boom and 12" of fire out the barrel.

    Look at this link for a cool ballistic chart and foot-lbs of energy.
    home.earthlink.net/~loko/...ables.html

    I know, I know...Im a friking engineer. Sue me.



    gram22
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 57
    (3/8/03 4:34:08 am)
    Reply My last ditch .22 Ammo picks...Better than a .38!
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    If you shot someone in the face, there probobly would'nt be much difference in how big the bullet is. The only gun I have is a Ruger 10/22, so if someone breaks into my house, that's where the shooting will be coming from... if they don't shoot me first hopefully. If I had a choice however, I would probobly want a 12 gauge pump-action to do the talking. As far as ammunition is concerned, I would probobly use CCI Stingers if I had them. I keep 5 rounds of Remington high velocity in my factory mag just in case something bad happens.

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 6502
    (3/8/03 10:15:04 am)
    Reply
    ezSupporter
    Re: My last ditch .22 Ammo picks...Better than a .38!
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    Use the 60 grain Aguilla sub sonic sniper ammo. Most stopping power of all the 22lr that I know of.

    Stay away from hollow point ammo for this purpose. I have done extensive testing on live raccoons and hollowpoint ammo tends tends to expand when it hits the fur,skin and meat and lays flat against the skull without penetrating. Solid bullets do the best penetration of the skull and the above mentioned 60 gr is the best of these.




    scarface
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (3/9/03 7:31:26 pm)
    Reply Re: My last ditch .22 Ammo picks...Better than a .38!
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    So does this 60 gr. stuff cycle well through autos? The casing must be shorter so how about damage to chamber. It seems if you shot ALOT of these you might have trouble exstracting a normal length round due to slight errosion. I don't hunt coons anymore, but my neighbors do and I love sitting on the backporch listening to a hunt a mile away, and knowing exactly whats going on.
    Thanks, Scarface

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 6515
    (3/9/03 10:29:18 pm)
    Reply
    ezSupporter
    Re: My last ditch .22 Ammo picks...Better than a .38!
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    It cycles my buckmark fine and my Marlin semi auto. Never had any problems with it at all.

    The cases are about the same size as a 22short and as you know many guns are designed to shoot both shorts and long rifles, I have never seen any erosion/buildup in the chambers.

    If used for long range shooting the drop must be figured in as it has more frop than the regular 40gr hunting rounds.

    z537z
    Member
    Posts: 37
    (3/11/03 6:19:05 pm)
    Reply I'm with gram, but...
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    While the velocities and muzzle energies of rounds that are not .22LR are much higher, it really isn't proportional to kill rate.

    Hollow points are nice as they expand, maximizing the area of damage.

    However, all you really need to do it puncture skin/bone and do enough damage to at the very least incapacitate. Just one round of .22, even a colibri round, in someone's forehead, face, or anywhere in the head from the side or rear would probably be enough pain, if not death, for them to drop whatever they're doing or holding and scream a little.

    If it's dark, or you're nervous or whatever and can't hit a headshot reliably, a few .22's in the torso, let alone a likely fatal heart shot, would probably surprise Mr. mugger enough to at least give you a minute to get closer and lay down some hand to hand whoopass.


    Of course, I'd much rather that 12ga be my partner in such a situation: That's a whole lot of you're dead.


    _z



    Jbobin
    Member
    Posts: 38
    (3/14/03 7:41:24 pm)
    Reply bang bang
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    I guess most any firearm would keep my head down. This is why my wife has a choice of grabbing the loaded .22lr Buckmark, the SA Colt 22lr, or the .38 Smith and Wesson. Whichever she chooses is better than grabbing a nearby golfclub or shoe and swinging it....

    I love the dialog on this site.

    Jack
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2003
  2. Dead.Eye.Steve

    Dead.Eye.Steve New Member

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    FYI:

    The most potent 22 rounds I'm aware of are CCI's 32 grain Quick Shok and Stinger @ 191 FT. lbs, with their 40 grain Velocity hollow point not far behind at 183.

    Not bad, when you consider the average 22 round has about 131 Ft. lbs.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2003
  3. swanshot

    swanshot New Member

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    If you're usin a .22 then forget range. half a dozen rounds of just about anything in the face at 10 or 12 feet should just about do it.
  4. lostdane

    lostdane New Member

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    defence

    ? What really people I know a .22 is better than none but when the intruder gets an adrenilen rush he probably is not going to even know he has been shot. as far as the .357 the longer the barrel the harder the kick and further more if one is woried about the kick get one that is ported. and the ear poping sound should make your intruder in despret need of laundring
  5. z537z

    z537z New Member

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    Medium calibers are best.
    .380
    9mm
    .357 sig maybe
    .40 S&W on upper end.

    .22 is better than nothing. You'd be surprised the psychological effect getting shot has on a person. Suddenly their motives change. And not necessarily to a Tom Sizemore-esque unstoppability in which his goal is to kill you.

    I'd keep a .22 near my bed if I had a pistol.

    _z
  6. Cliff

    Cliff New Member

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    I am going to say something that will probably make some of you cringe, shaking your head in amazement or as in "what's wrong with that dude's thinking."

    I, have a Ruger PK 9mm SS, 147 HP, which I keep by my bed laying out on the top of the nightstand along beside the clock, car keys, grenade launcher with grenade tied on so when I pull the string it will drop grenade into AK grenade launcher at a moment's notice.

    Now to the point of utilizing a .22 for home defense and placing it where I had been keeping the 9mm. The pistol will be a semi-auto, loaded with HP one can say, yep, they'll jam on ya so ya better use a revolver to which I will say if it jams it is just my time to meet my maker after I have shot it at least one time into the intruder. Anyways I feel that I am going to try to aim at his head for 2 pops and then I am going to unload the rest of them just below the breast bone into the guts. Immediately after these bullets get into the gut there is instantaneous pain as what most people will not, I say again, pain that causes crumpling at the knees in MOST folks. When all of the acids in the stomach, gall bladder and intestines go dumping into the periteneum the pain will be intense. Very few accidents can cause this much debilitating pain. They are grabbing their gut's trying to put the fire out.

    I know that there are a bunch of LEO on line and I will agree the bigger the better because of what they see out on the streets. Saw the perps loaded into ambulances which brought them to me, an ER tech, 4yrs, E-4, US Air Force. The turkeys, when brought in that had the 9mm, .38 Spec, .357 (all that was allowed in the early '70s for most LEOs) would be grunting, usually rolling a bit, holding belly, chest, arm wound. Now the idiots who f---ed with the prostitutes carrying the .22s, .25's, .32s would be writhing in pain, moaning, rolling, and lastly calling "Oh Momma, Momma, heeellpp me!" These gut shots will be muther-truckers! When you see someone on tv/movie that were gut-shot were depicted correctly. Sorta like John Wayne in "El Dorado"? where Wayne shot a kid, Wayne was going to go get help for the boy, but as soon as Wayne left the kid 'killed himself" because of the pain. It is nothing to see in a person shot 1-3 times w/ a .22 to have 8-10 holes in the intestines because of the muscles contracting to try to avoid that bullet bouncing around. If you gonna knife a guy in the guts make danged sure you put the knife in quickly and wiggle-waggle it around a lot because the intestines will try and sometimes do move around to avoid the knife.

    Hope this will make you feel a little safer with the .22 as a defense weapon but I am going to carrying at least a 9mm for me.
  7. z537z

    z537z New Member

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    It's an excellent point, pain can work wonders to crushing a person's resolve.

    _z
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