Latest pics of 3rd prototype Ruger 10/22 mini machine gun stock kit.

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by Bill Akins, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Update:

    Here's the latest photos of my 3rd prototype machine gun dress up kit stock for the Ruger 10/22.

    No modifications of any kind are done to the Ruger 10/22 receiver. It is still factory stock.

    3rd prototype, (2nd water cooled prototype) that also quick changes to an air cooled model in just a few seconds. All that's left to do is to fabricate the sights like I did on the last 2nd prototype and fabricate the tripod mount attachment piece for fitting to a standard camera tripod, drill, tap and install the drain plug and hose, get all the aluminum anodized and attach a crank fire trigger attachment to the trigger guard so it can be crank fired like a Gatling. And then get my production line set up. I got several quotes from machine shops for quantities on the parts, and it was just too much. There are actually quite a few parts. And I don't want the hassle of having these made over seas, with shipping and not being able to be there to see and fix any production mistakes. So I have decided to set up my own production line to make these myself in small production lots. Still will be a little while before they are in production, but getting there little by little. All the end user will have to do is get their factory standard stainless steel tapered barrel end threaded to 1/2 x 28 tpi at a local machine shop. I can make the kit easily work with an .092 bull barrel too, by machining the faux receiver front plate a little differently for the bull barrel.

    With 50 rd MWG mag in gun.
    [​IMG]

    With 25 rd Tactical Innovations mag in gun
    [​IMG]

    Quick changed to an air cooled model. Pic taken before I drilled & tapped & added hex button screws to the top cover also before I rounded ejection port ends.

    [​IMG]
  2. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    Tight!! I love the air cooled model
  3. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    sweet. it looks like a mini maxim, and the air cooled looks like a mini browining 1919 .30
  4. The_Rifleman

    The_Rifleman New Member

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    Those are too cool!
  5. gendoikari87

    gendoikari87 Former Guest

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    Me want one!!!!!!!!
  6. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Thanks guys, I'll keep you updated.



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  7. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Just got it tripod mounted today.

    I finished making the tripod mount bracket today. I mounted the gun onto the tripod for the first time today and it fits and operates perfectly. I am thinking about welding four small triangular braces on the outside of each bend on the mount bracket though, because I do notice just a slight bit of springiness flexibility in the mount. The welded triangular bend supports will fix that.

    Next I have to fabricate and install the sights, anodize it, and it is finished.

    My air/water cooled convertible 3rd prototype in air cooled configuration
    with mount bracket mounted to heavy duty camera tripod for first time. All below pics taken today.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Quickly changed while on the tripod to a truly water cooled version.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I like a heavy duty camera tripod because it is very cheap to pick up for anyone anywhere. A good one from a pawn shop for maybe $30. to $35 dollars. I like the heavy duty camera tripod though, not a thin spindly one.
    I couldn't build a tripod less expensive than that, that also has all the adjustments a camera tripod already has. With its legs fully extended it looks somewhat like an MG42 AA tripod, (only with all the neat camera tripod head adjustments the MG42 tripod doesn't have). It is also cheap and easy to paint the tripod to better match the eventual anodized finish/color of the dress up kit.

    1. My tripod has tilt from side to side and the ability to lock that tilt at any point. That means if I am on uneven ground, I can adjust the head of the tripod to be level instead of having to adjust all the legs as in a conventional machine gun tripod.

    2. Elevation and de-elevation and the ability to lock it at any point.

    3. 360% windage and the ability to lock the windage at any point.

    4. I can crank up the tripod pole way past the tripod head, enabling me to get instant height to shoot sitting on a stool or standing. This extra height and adjustment you don't even get on an MG42 AA tripod. Plus, I still have the tripod legs that I can let in or out for any height adjustment I need. But once I have the tripod legs set to an approx height I want, then I can just
    crank up the pole head for whatever exact sighting height I need.

    5. It has a bubble level for both tilt, elevation and for leveling the head to legs.

    6. It is much lighter than a full size MG tripod.

    7. It works using an extremely simple mount bracket that can taken off if desired and another mount bracket can be easily made (if one desires), to fit it too almost any real machine gun tripod. "Coffee Cup Stains" sells plans for a mini Browning tripod (you can build, they don't make them) and with slight adapting of my mount, I have no doubt it would fit on them too. But I prefer the camera tripod mount myself after I multiple test fired them on both types of tripods where I realized it was all I needed for a .22 and had a greater variety of adjustments not normally found on MG tripods.




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  8. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    i think it needs some sort of linkage so the gun can be fired by pressing a trigger button with your thumb, like the original machineguns had. it seems it would be kinda awkward to have to pull the trigger without a grip for you hand to be on
  9. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    I like how you think John and I'm going to do exactly that.

    I experimented with doing that two years ago with my first water cooled Ruger prototype. A crank that is turned by both thumbs that goes to either a wheel and strut linkage (like a locomotive) to the BMF activator's spindle on both its sides, or using the same principle but with gears and a chain or belt. The strut hole in the wheels are positioned slightly off from the other wheel to help the other wheel over its "hump" when its strut is fully extended. That would only be an issue with the locomotive strut/train wheel type set up. With gears and a chain or belt, no strut full extension would occur. But either method will work. It will require a wheel/gear attached to each side of the BMF activator's spindle which is double sided already to allow the crank handle to be ambidextrous. Then another set of wheels/gears on each side that is setback just under the grips. Then from that last set just under the grips, the struts/chain/belt goes upward to the thumbcrank between the spade grips.

    I designed the faux receiver's back cover plate to be removable, so I can attach the thumbcrank to another back plate and by attaching the strut linkage, or chain or belt to the wheels/gears attached to the spindle stems on both side of the BMF activator, to have an optional drop in thumbcrank accessory to the BMF activator that will allow you to keep all your fingers on the spade grips while manually cranking with your two thumbs.

    http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3025655810099763970ivXHkP

    Is that something like what you had in mind John? As you can see from my video, very do'able.

    It would be the only Ruger 10/22 convertible air or water cooled, mini MG dress up stock in existence that allowed you to manually crank fire with you thumbs while still keeping all your other fingers on the spade grips. And for California and Minnesota, (the only two states where it is illegal to install a crankfire trigger activator) I also have designed the faux receiver to allow enough room to accommodate a pistol grip immediately behind the factory trigger, and by removing the two dual spade grips and replacing them with one single spade grip (ala the Lewis gun), it would be fired normally without any crankfire trigger activator attachments.

    I also have a design I've drawn that belt feeds the Ruger 10/22 magazine without any modifications to the firearm in any way. I've started on machining out the housings for two of the belt fed mags, but that got put on a back burner until I can finish this prototype. The belt fed mag design would also work for any box type magazine fed firearm. No questions on the belt fed mag design please, for obvious reasons I intend to patent that one.

    But first I have to finish the sights and get it anodized before working on the thumb crank and belt fed mag.


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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  10. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    Any thought to sights? Anti air type like on the M60D model would look cool. That what had in the Corps.
  11. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    I definitely thought about the sights. In fact I agonized over the sights. My first prototype which was air cooled I installed AA type spider sights, actually using the M60D spider sight (you mentioned) with a tall front sight on the end of the perforated barrel shroud. Like in this below photo.......

    [​IMG]

    Then for my first water cooled prototype, I used a rear ladder sight I adapted from a WW1 Enfield rifle sight I modified to effect windage too, (it does not normally have windage, just elevation) like this....

    [​IMG]

    However my third prototype is different. It is convertible and in just a few seconds it can go from air cooled to water cooled. This presents several problems because I am using one standardized faux receiver. If I install a ladder type rear sight on the receiver for the water cooled version, then it would look strange to have that ladder sight on it and also another rear spider sight that is attached to the air cooling shroud when I put on the air cooling shroud. Yes I could remove the rear ladder sight but then the holes to attach it to the top of the receiver would show. Plus it really would mess up my stock kit being convertible because if you removed the rear ladder sight so it wouldn't look strange with a rear spider sight installed too, then you can't use the rear ladder sight when you put on the water jacket to convert it to water cooled. Or you would have to reinstall it and its screws.

    So....as I said, I agonized about the sights. Especially because I happen to really really like the M60D spider sight setup on my first prototype.

    But I had to take into account that this is going to be a convertible from air to water cooled and back again stock. So I decided to standardize the rear sight to work with both versions just like I standardized the faux receiver to work with both versions.

    What that means is, I've decided to use the ladder sight for both versions. When it is in the air cooled configuration, the front sight will be welded on the perforated air cooling shroud, right up next to the front of the faux receiver, and will look a lot like a standard 1919a4 front sight which is also a short radius distance front sight right up against the front of the 1919a4's receiver front.

    Then when the perforated air cooling shroud is removed (in seconds) and replaced with a working water jacket, the front sight on the end of the water jacket will also work with the rear ladder sight.

    So again, I standardized the rear sight and only change the front sights when it is swapped between air and water cooling.

    But, if one wanted to just have an air cooled AA type model without swapping versions back and forth, they could certainly remove the screws and take off the rear ladder sight. Then cut the front sight off the perforated barrel shroud and replace it with the rear spider sight and fabricate a tall front sight to go on the end of the perforated barrel shroud, which would give them a sight setup like my first air cooled prototype.

    But I would leave that for someone to do themselves. I'll be using one standardized ladder rear sight that works with either the air cooled or water cooled front sights.

    Like I said, I agonized over the sights. But I had to do what was practical for being a convertible to either version kit.

    Make sense?




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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  12. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    I love the air cooled model and in the ''blued variation'' looks great with the old M60 sights on it. We can have the crank device in Florida and would greatly consider this kit when you get it where you want it. Trigger on the spade grip would be awesome even if it activated the trigger on the bottom of the receiver and then some sort of cover on it to conceal it.
  13. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    I noticed you live in Tampa Bay Area, Fl. I was born in Tampa. We live pretty close.
    I'm in Hudson, Fl now which is about 45 mins to an hour north from downtown Tampa.
    So when they eventually are ready, you can come by and check them out in person.


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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2010
  14. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    how about instead of a thumb crank maybe something similar to the pedal power of an old sewing machine. use the same train wheel linkage on the trigger, but for the thumb have a paddle that just needs to be pressed.

    pretty cool ideas though. the belt fire thing if you could make it work with just a standard 1022 would be a big seller i imagine
  15. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    Thank you and I will. I am in Lakewood ranch/Bradenton area
  16. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Good ideas and I laud how you think John, but trouble with the BATFE.

    The old singer sewing machines used a weighted flywheel (like a locomotive offset weighted wheel) to keep the wheel going at the "hump point" of the rod's extension that turned the wheel. The BATFE has said that you cannot use any method of storing energy to fire the gun. It must be manually done by the human. It is possible to make what you say without using a flywheel that will not store any energy, but if you are just pushing down upon a paddle and then letting up, that is the same as pushing down upon a trigger lever and then letting up. So your paddle becomes the trigger and is the part that the human interacts with to fire the gun. Therefore, if by one push of that paddle, you cause more than one shot to fire, that could be construed by the BATFE as being a trigger that is causing more than one shot to be fired by a single downward push function, and is a fully automatic machinegun. This is true because YOU are not using rotational motion to crank it. You would be pushing down on a lever with linear motion just like linear motion on a standard trigger. And then your linear motion causes rotational motion elsewhere. But it does not have rotational motion at the point where the human interacts with the firearm to fire it.

    So I am just going to stick to rotational motion. Rotational motion, if done exclusively by the human, and without any weighted flywheels, and if the human lets go of the crank while turning and the crank will not continue to fire another shot if they let go of it, then that is okay with the BATFE and is not a machine gun since rotational cranking for gatling guns and other crank fired guns was specifically exempted from being machine guns under the NFA.

    So regular crankfire trigger activators, or else a thumbcrank activator for keeping the rest of the fingers on the spade grips, is what I am going to be using.


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  17. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Although nothing is anodized yet, the following pics give a good representation of how the convertible to air or water cooled, 3rd prototype, dress up stock will look when completed.

    On my first air cooled prototype dress up stock I started on about 4 years ago, I designed it from the start to just have a rear spider sight and tall front sight to resemble a Browning anti-aircraft gun. It had not occurred to me to build a water cooled one yet, not to mention an easily convertible to either air or water cooled one.


    On my first water cooled prototype I used a front sight on the water jacket of my own design that resembles a Browning 1917's hooded front post sight. On the rear I used a sight mount of my own design that holds and allows spring assisted raising of the WW1 Enfield rifle's ladder sight, that I have modified to enable to be used for windage in my sight mount. Works very well and looks historically representative of tripod machine gun's sights from that era my dress up stock resembles.

    After making an air cooled and a water cooled dress up stock. I had taught myself a lot. In looking at both my designs I realized there were improvements I could make. On my 3rd prototype, I redesigned the way the water jacket seals and thus made the water jacket easily removable and able to be replaced in just seconds with a perforated air cooling shroud which has the front sight for the air cooled version built in. Thus by changing out the front end of the stock from one version to the other, you still continue to use the same rear sight but the front sight is replaced.

    So with this 3rd prototype I could have one sighting system for each version that would only change the front sight when switched between versions.

    Or so I thought at first.........

    I agonized and agonized about the sights for a long time. I thought of every possible combination of sights, and how that would factor into ease of building. Something less complicated that can do a better job than something more complicated, all while keeping my requirement that they be aesthetically appealing.

    At first I thought about using the exact same design of of my first water cooled prototype's rear sight, for the rear sight on this 3rd prototype. And in some ways I have done that, but in other ways, I don't use that sight and replace it with a spider AA sight.

    (I also have been experimenting with an enlarged, extended bolt handle design that changes the bolt handle's look dramatically. It needs further testing and evaluation, I haven't had the opportunity to shoot with it yet, but I really like the looks of it and it makes charging the bolt a breeze. It isn't available anywhere not yet anyway. I checked, no one makes the bolt handle I wanted, so if I want it, I have to make it. I also attached a BMF crankfire trigger attachment to the trigger guard so it can be crank fired in the same way a crank is turned for a Gatling gun. These pics will be very close to the final configuration.)

    These mockups show the approximate positions of where the sight will be located. Naturally, I have to mill certain slots and ways to attach some of them, not to mention also construct some of the sights, their bases and brackets. But these mockups give a good general idea of how they will look.

    1. "Four bolt rear sight"
    I call it this because four bolts hold it to the top of the faux receiver.
    This first sight mock up I did was to take the rear sight off my first water cooled prototype and set it on top of the faux receiver of my third prototype as if it were attached. The mount of this sight has four holes in it that correspond to four threaded holes in the top of the faux receiver. Then I put the water jacket on the stock, and set an unattached yet, front sight hood on the front end of the water jacket just for mock up photos. I have not yet constructed the front post that goes under that hood. Here are those pics......

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    2. "My easily detachable, triangular bracket, rear sight".

    In looking at my first mockup, I realized that there was a way to attach the rear sight block to the faux receiver without having to drill and thread any holes on top of the faux receiver. I took a piece of black paper and folded it over so it fit over the top of the faux receiver, yet was UNDER the rear sight block, then its folded down portion I cut into a rounded end triangle equidistant to the length of the sight block, and made it project downward where it has a hole on each downward projecting side that corresponds to the already existing attachment point knurled brass nuts and thus secures to the faux receiver. Now if I want to, I can completely remove this "triangular" rear sight bracket and with no holes in the faux receiver's top, you never knew it was there. By designing this rear sight block to be easily removable without leaving unsightly screw holes, This enables me to use other types of sights. Remember, the triangular part going down the side of the faux receiver, is just black paper for mock up evaluation, although it looks more solid in the picture. Here's the triangular bracket rear sight mockup.....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    3. The air cooled 1919a4 style front sight

    Next is my mock up for a 1919a4 style front sight on the air cooled model while still using the triangular rear sight I used on the water cooled model. The front sight mock up sitting on the front sight base of the perforated cooling shroud, is just a piece of foam board cut and painted with black magic marker to look like a 1919a4 receiver front sight that is attached to the shroud rear at the front of the receiver. Which makes for a shorter sight radias, but is authentic to where this style sight was located on the 1919a4.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    4. The air cooled AA spider sight system.

    My 4th sight mockup removes the triangular rear sight & block from the faux receiver (leaving no unsightly threaded holes). Then the 1919a4 type front sight is removed from its slot on the perforated cooling shroud's sight base, and then replaced with a windage adjustable rear AA spider sight while a removable band tall front sight is attached to the muzzle end of the cooling shroud. Thus giving a totally different sighting system. The nice thing with the air cooled version's sights is that you can choose the triangular rear sight and 1919a4 type front sight, or convert it to an AA spider sight with tall front sight version. The tall front sight in the below pics does not have its band built onto it that will fit over the cooling shroud. But you can imagine it. Same as a scope band, but with a tall front sight on top of it. Right now that plastic tall front sight mockup, is just sitting on the end of the cooling shroud held in place by a small blob of grease to keep it temporary stuck to the shroud for mockup evaluation pictures.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    5. The water cooled AA spider sight system.

    This final 5th mockup, is strictly a possibility. It is my least favorite aesthetically compared to the others, but is possible to do without too much trouble other than removing the water jacket's front sight hood and replacing it with a tall front sight on the end of the water jacket to correspond to the height of the rear AA spider sight which I can make attach to the rear of the water jacket. I placed an empty cartridge case on the end of the water jacket to approximate the height of a tall front sight. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble to make this one if it isn't as appealing as the others. Got to think about this one. What do you think about it?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Well that's my sight combination mockups. My personal favorites and preference is to just nix the four screw bracket and go only with the triangular bracket for the ladder rear sight (whenever that rear sight is used), making it removable without any unsightly holes (when uncovered) having to be made. And using that triangular rear sight along with the 1919a4 style front sight when in air cooled configuration. And the AA spider and tall front sight for the air cooled model too. I like the triangular rear sight and the Browning looking hooded post best for the water cooled version.

    I've designed in some modular ability to switch around sights to whatever I want.

    Which ones do you like?



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  18. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    I made my final decisions on which sights I am going to use for both the air cooled, and water cooled versions of my convertible dress up stock.

    Last night I made the rear ladder sight bracket. I realized that I could mill off the triangle on the right side, and just keep the triangle on the left side (like on a real Browning 1919) and still be able to secure the sight bracket without it having any kind of looseness or "rock" at all. All that is left to do with this sight bracket is to drill and tap the sight riser plate for the ladder sight's spring, and then to drill the sight protector "ears" and install a small diameter bolt through them and the ladder sight so I can effect windage. The 1917 Enfield rifle ladder sight I am using did not have the ability for windage. It was a flip up type only. So I tapped its pin hole where it flipped up, so it is threaded. The small diameter bolt I will put through it will enable me to turn the bolt to make the ladder sight travel left or right on the bolt, thus effecting windage. I left the sight protective "ears" a little higher than I needed until I mount the ladder sight's spring and the sight itself. Then I may be able to trim the “ears” down some maybe an 1/8th inch or so. So when you look at it now, the protective ears may look a little higher than they will eventually be. When I made them, I figured better to have them too high and be able to trim them after I finished mounting the sight and its spring, than to have made them too short. You can always trim metal, but it is hard to add when you have cut off.

    Here's a link to a short video.
    CLIP1314.ASF videos from good times videos on webshots

    ....and the pics....


    [​IMG]

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    I’ll post updates here at this thread on the ongoing progress.


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  19. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

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    Very nice work! It seems that you are a true craftsman. I don't think I could ever build anything that would would exbibit your skill set. The green eyed monster has taken hold of me.
  20. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Thanks very much Jacksonco. I'm glad you liked it.


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