Latest pics of 3rd prototype Ruger 10/22 mini machine gun stock kit.

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by Bill Akins, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Good ideas and I laud how you think John, but trouble with the BATFE.

    The old singer sewing machines used a weighted flywheel (like a locomotive offset weighted wheel) to keep the wheel going at the "hump point" of the rod's extension that turned the wheel. The BATFE has said that you cannot use any method of storing energy to fire the gun. It must be manually done by the human. It is possible to make what you say without using a flywheel that will not store any energy, but if you are just pushing down upon a paddle and then letting up, that is the same as pushing down upon a trigger lever and then letting up. So your paddle becomes the trigger and is the part that the human interacts with to fire the gun. Therefore, if by one push of that paddle, you cause more than one shot to fire, that could be construed by the BATFE as being a trigger that is causing more than one shot to be fired by a single downward push function, and is a fully automatic machinegun. This is true because YOU are not using rotational motion to crank it. You would be pushing down on a lever with linear motion just like linear motion on a standard trigger. And then your linear motion causes rotational motion elsewhere. But it does not have rotational motion at the point where the human interacts with the firearm to fire it.

    So I am just going to stick to rotational motion. Rotational motion, if done exclusively by the human, and without any weighted flywheels, and if the human lets go of the crank while turning and the crank will not continue to fire another shot if they let go of it, then that is okay with the BATFE and is not a machine gun since rotational cranking for gatling guns and other crank fired guns was specifically exempted from being machine guns under the NFA.

    So regular crankfire trigger activators, or else a thumbcrank activator for keeping the rest of the fingers on the spade grips, is what I am going to be using.


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  2. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Although nothing is anodized yet, the following pics give a good representation of how the convertible to air or water cooled, 3rd prototype, dress up stock will look when completed.

    On my first air cooled prototype dress up stock I started on about 4 years ago, I designed it from the start to just have a rear spider sight and tall front sight to resemble a Browning anti-aircraft gun. It had not occurred to me to build a water cooled one yet, not to mention an easily convertible to either air or water cooled one.


    On my first water cooled prototype I used a front sight on the water jacket of my own design that resembles a Browning 1917's hooded front post sight. On the rear I used a sight mount of my own design that holds and allows spring assisted raising of the WW1 Enfield rifle's ladder sight, that I have modified to enable to be used for windage in my sight mount. Works very well and looks historically representative of tripod machine gun's sights from that era my dress up stock resembles.

    After making an air cooled and a water cooled dress up stock. I had taught myself a lot. In looking at both my designs I realized there were improvements I could make. On my 3rd prototype, I redesigned the way the water jacket seals and thus made the water jacket easily removable and able to be replaced in just seconds with a perforated air cooling shroud which has the front sight for the air cooled version built in. Thus by changing out the front end of the stock from one version to the other, you still continue to use the same rear sight but the front sight is replaced.

    So with this 3rd prototype I could have one sighting system for each version that would only change the front sight when switched between versions.

    Or so I thought at first.........

    I agonized and agonized about the sights for a long time. I thought of every possible combination of sights, and how that would factor into ease of building. Something less complicated that can do a better job than something more complicated, all while keeping my requirement that they be aesthetically appealing.

    At first I thought about using the exact same design of of my first water cooled prototype's rear sight, for the rear sight on this 3rd prototype. And in some ways I have done that, but in other ways, I don't use that sight and replace it with a spider AA sight.

    (I also have been experimenting with an enlarged, extended bolt handle design that changes the bolt handle's look dramatically. It needs further testing and evaluation, I haven't had the opportunity to shoot with it yet, but I really like the looks of it and it makes charging the bolt a breeze. It isn't available anywhere not yet anyway. I checked, no one makes the bolt handle I wanted, so if I want it, I have to make it. I also attached a BMF crankfire trigger attachment to the trigger guard so it can be crank fired in the same way a crank is turned for a Gatling gun. These pics will be very close to the final configuration.)

    These mockups show the approximate positions of where the sight will be located. Naturally, I have to mill certain slots and ways to attach some of them, not to mention also construct some of the sights, their bases and brackets. But these mockups give a good general idea of how they will look.

    1. "Four bolt rear sight"
    I call it this because four bolts hold it to the top of the faux receiver.
    This first sight mock up I did was to take the rear sight off my first water cooled prototype and set it on top of the faux receiver of my third prototype as if it were attached. The mount of this sight has four holes in it that correspond to four threaded holes in the top of the faux receiver. Then I put the water jacket on the stock, and set an unattached yet, front sight hood on the front end of the water jacket just for mock up photos. I have not yet constructed the front post that goes under that hood. Here are those pics......

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    2. "My easily detachable, triangular bracket, rear sight".

    In looking at my first mockup, I realized that there was a way to attach the rear sight block to the faux receiver without having to drill and thread any holes on top of the faux receiver. I took a piece of black paper and folded it over so it fit over the top of the faux receiver, yet was UNDER the rear sight block, then its folded down portion I cut into a rounded end triangle equidistant to the length of the sight block, and made it project downward where it has a hole on each downward projecting side that corresponds to the already existing attachment point knurled brass nuts and thus secures to the faux receiver. Now if I want to, I can completely remove this "triangular" rear sight bracket and with no holes in the faux receiver's top, you never knew it was there. By designing this rear sight block to be easily removable without leaving unsightly screw holes, This enables me to use other types of sights. Remember, the triangular part going down the side of the faux receiver, is just black paper for mock up evaluation, although it looks more solid in the picture. Here's the triangular bracket rear sight mockup.....

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    3. The air cooled 1919a4 style front sight

    Next is my mock up for a 1919a4 style front sight on the air cooled model while still using the triangular rear sight I used on the water cooled model. The front sight mock up sitting on the front sight base of the perforated cooling shroud, is just a piece of foam board cut and painted with black magic marker to look like a 1919a4 receiver front sight that is attached to the shroud rear at the front of the receiver. Which makes for a shorter sight radias, but is authentic to where this style sight was located on the 1919a4.

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    4. The air cooled AA spider sight system.

    My 4th sight mockup removes the triangular rear sight & block from the faux receiver (leaving no unsightly threaded holes). Then the 1919a4 type front sight is removed from its slot on the perforated cooling shroud's sight base, and then replaced with a windage adjustable rear AA spider sight while a removable band tall front sight is attached to the muzzle end of the cooling shroud. Thus giving a totally different sighting system. The nice thing with the air cooled version's sights is that you can choose the triangular rear sight and 1919a4 type front sight, or convert it to an AA spider sight with tall front sight version. The tall front sight in the below pics does not have its band built onto it that will fit over the cooling shroud. But you can imagine it. Same as a scope band, but with a tall front sight on top of it. Right now that plastic tall front sight mockup, is just sitting on the end of the cooling shroud held in place by a small blob of grease to keep it temporary stuck to the shroud for mockup evaluation pictures.

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    5. The water cooled AA spider sight system.

    This final 5th mockup, is strictly a possibility. It is my least favorite aesthetically compared to the others, but is possible to do without too much trouble other than removing the water jacket's front sight hood and replacing it with a tall front sight on the end of the water jacket to correspond to the height of the rear AA spider sight which I can make attach to the rear of the water jacket. I placed an empty cartridge case on the end of the water jacket to approximate the height of a tall front sight. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble to make this one if it isn't as appealing as the others. Got to think about this one. What do you think about it?

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    Well that's my sight combination mockups. My personal favorites and preference is to just nix the four screw bracket and go only with the triangular bracket for the ladder rear sight (whenever that rear sight is used), making it removable without any unsightly holes (when uncovered) having to be made. And using that triangular rear sight along with the 1919a4 style front sight when in air cooled configuration. And the AA spider and tall front sight for the air cooled model too. I like the triangular rear sight and the Browning looking hooded post best for the water cooled version.

    I've designed in some modular ability to switch around sights to whatever I want.

    Which ones do you like?



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  3. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    I made my final decisions on which sights I am going to use for both the air cooled, and water cooled versions of my convertible dress up stock.

    Last night I made the rear ladder sight bracket. I realized that I could mill off the triangle on the right side, and just keep the triangle on the left side (like on a real Browning 1919) and still be able to secure the sight bracket without it having any kind of looseness or "rock" at all. All that is left to do with this sight bracket is to drill and tap the sight riser plate for the ladder sight's spring, and then to drill the sight protector "ears" and install a small diameter bolt through them and the ladder sight so I can effect windage. The 1917 Enfield rifle ladder sight I am using did not have the ability for windage. It was a flip up type only. So I tapped its pin hole where it flipped up, so it is threaded. The small diameter bolt I will put through it will enable me to turn the bolt to make the ladder sight travel left or right on the bolt, thus effecting windage. I left the sight protective "ears" a little higher than I needed until I mount the ladder sight's spring and the sight itself. Then I may be able to trim the “ears” down some maybe an 1/8th inch or so. So when you look at it now, the protective ears may look a little higher than they will eventually be. When I made them, I figured better to have them too high and be able to trim them after I finished mounting the sight and its spring, than to have made them too short. You can always trim metal, but it is hard to add when you have cut off.

    Here's a link to a short video.
    CLIP1314.ASF videos from good times videos on webshots

    ....and the pics....


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    I’ll post updates here at this thread on the ongoing progress.


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  4. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

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    Very nice work! It seems that you are a true craftsman. I don't think I could ever build anything that would would exbibit your skill set. The green eyed monster has taken hold of me.
  5. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Thanks very much Jacksonco. I'm glad you liked it.


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  6. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    I did a little redesign on the mount for the tripod. I think it looks better now than just the earlier bent piece of steel mount it was.
    Stronger too. What do you think?

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  7. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    very nice. I was just fixin to post if you were going to add some gussets to the bent mount to strenghthen it... Again very nice... boy I could burn up some ammo with one of those...
  8. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Thanks JLA. Yes it is rock solid now with not even a little bit of springiness like it had before.


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  9. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    It's been a while since I last posted about my crank fire creations, so here's an update on my latest 3rd prototype that is convertible between being water cooled or air cooled in under a minute and showing it firing at the range. I used to use Webshots to upload my photos and videos to. But when they closed down, all the pictures and videos I had linked to there in my online posts, disappeared. I still have my pics and videos on my computer and saved to disks, but they disappeared in all my online posts since they were all linked to Webshots. Now I use Photobucket as well as YouTube.

    Here's a video I just finished creating showing the evolution of my crank fire dress up kit prototypes versions 1 through 3. The first one is air cooled only. The second one is (truly) water cooled only. But my third prototype is convertible in under a minute to be either air cooled or (truly) water cooled (no fake water jackets here). I learned a lot making the first two, and my 3rd prototype incorporates new design changes that I learned from making the earlier ones. In my video you will see my latest 3rd prototype firing at the range using the new GSG 110 rd drum mag and it's really spitting out the rounds. Hope you enjoy it. Bill



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  10. howlnmad

    howlnmad Well-Known Member

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    That was sweet. I wish I had followed along from the beginning, I'd like to have seen the other photos.
  11. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    i take it the pictures are simply broken links due to hosting changes?
  12. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins New Member

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    Yes. When Webshots closed down, it made all the pics and videos in all my earlier posts at all forums I posted at disappear. Now I use Photobucket and YouTube.
  13. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    just making sure it was not my side. :)

    i just changed malware software and thought it might have broken things.. :)
  14. Maser

    Maser Well-Known Member

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    Nice video and all, but seriously, pull away from the mic a bit and you won't get those "puffs".
  15. Guts3d

    Guts3d Well-Known Member

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    Water cooled .22? Looks nice, but a bit overkill I think. Nice!
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