Legal Question: Is this the way to challenge the NFA?

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by CampingJosh, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

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    I have a legal question, and I'd like opinions especially from our members with a legal background (though I'd also like everyone else to join in).

    This was on the second page of Justice Stevens' dissenting opinion to the D.C. v. Heller case last year. (Full text of opinion and dissent here)

    (Note that Justice Stevens is one of the more liberal members of the SCOTUS, and even he says this.)

    If I read that right, it seems that the Miller ruling suggests that arms which are efficient for military use are exempt from the NFA (though certainly the ATF wouldn't see it that way until expressly ordered to do so by a federal court).

    Since short-barreled shotguns are used in at least some military capacity now (see here), is this our ticket to get at least that one portion of the NFA declared invalid? Or, am I totally off base with this?
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
  2. kingnothingugm

    kingnothingugm Member

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    Since the second amendment does not give permission to congress to regulate firearms, the NFA is un-Constitutional, hence, invalid. I have no legal background, but, the 9th and 10th amendments tell you that any right not given is reserved to the states. Congress was not given that right. The NFA is law that congress has no power to enact and is as worthless as the paper it is written on.
  3. kingnothingugm

    kingnothingugm Member

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    That we choose to follow a law does not make that law legal. Sounds weird huh?
  4. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

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    I agree, but I for one don't want to spend my days in prison as a protest. I'm looking for other ways to get through the system.
  5. kingnothingugm

    kingnothingugm Member

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    If the states stick to their current sovereignty streak we won't have to. If they actually take back their rights that is. I, on the other hand, would volunteer as the first to be wrongfully imprisoned if it would set things in motion.
  6. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

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  7. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    I can agree with you not wanting to go to prison...I certainly don't want to be the only one or one of just a few to give up my freedom. However, it seems to me that the cause we support is worthy of personal sacrifice. Sometimes I think it takes a few with courage to set an example for others. It is time to take a stand. I have no intention of complying with any future firearms ban (on national, state, or local level) beyond what is forced upon me by lack of availability of arms and ammunition.
  8. user

    user Active Member

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    The problem is that the NFA is a taxation mechanism, it's not about regulation of interstate commerce. Anyone who meets the (reasonably straightforward criteria, sort of like what you go through to get a concealed carry permit) and who pays the tax, can have a sawed-off shotgun or a machine gun. The government's stated interest in such things is collection of the tax, which is why what used to be ATF was part of the Treasury Dept. So in theory, the NFA didn't infringe on the legitimate ownership of weapons, it just taxed them, the same as the United States does with tires.
  9. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Good point regarding the taxation mechanism but is one also able to obtain any weapon listed in the so called assault weapons ban by merely paying a special tax as you now can with fully automatic weapons? My understanding was that it is an outright ban on the importation and sales of such weaponse to anybody.
  10. Millwright

    Millwright Well-Known Member

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    What you've got is a history question, CJ.....

    By the time Miller vs US came to SCOTUS the principal appellate, (Miller) was dead. The government was allowed to admit unchallegened "evidence" a sawed-off shotgun was not part of the Army's issue weapons. This was contrary to fact circa WW 1. IOW the resultant SCOTUS decison was flawed in concept and substance.

    IMO, little of Miller vs US is germane to our present situation. Far too much anti-gun legislation and regulation has passed under the bridge. >MW
  11. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    Just as was the poll tax. The one the Supreme Court held unconstitutional as taxing the exercise of a right protected by the Constitution.

    Pops
  12. 1shot1k

    1shot1k Former Guest

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    :)

    Cj , I am no legal scholar either...but I have read and reread the statement you provided..and I have many links to last years ( july I think ) ruling...I will check them also....

    but ...IMOP..after reading your post insert..(brief) it would appear he is upholding or indicating indictement (just) of the NFA to prohibit per general accepted meaning.....

    I'm not saying IMOP that the NFA is valid , constitutional , fair , communist , or other..only that...."what they say now...goes" as to the interpretation of SCOTUS per "this" ruling brief...and remember..this is a report or brief as you will get from (1) justice...and a published report of an "opinion" as to why the (1) voted yeah / neh...should not be a basis for you or anyone to dream/plan/run out buy a sawed off , thompson sub , etc...

    I can see how you might have interpreted this..but as I say...in my "opinion" of reading and understanding this , as it was posted...such a weapon being banned or listed..was upheld....

    just my 2c......."and hell..about the last 2 I got anyway...so be glad U got them...:p:p:p:D:D:D:D:D

    thanx,

    1shot
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  13. KING64

    KING64 New Member

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    And just wait. The tax mechanism has been proposed before and will be proposed again with respect to firearms and ammunition. If they cannot succeed in making private possession of firearms illegal they will attempt to tax it so heavily that only the rich and elite will have the means to own them or to employ their own armed body guards.

    I am not a smoker but heavy taxes, the so called sin taxes, are being levied all the time on smoking material. I hate to see that for it is only a baby step further to place burdensome taxes on anything else our "guardians" do not want us to have. Guns will be the next object of the "sin tax." It will be determined that guns are not a necessary item with which to pursue happiness therefore they are not needed by the masses.

    Beware golfers: I investigated two homicide cases during my career in which the victim was beaten to death with a golf club. Your clubs could be next.
  14. Precisely so, Pops. It was essentially held to be a violation of the 15th Amendment, just as most current firearms regs are violations of the 2nd, :mad:
  15. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Wow pops what a great argument. Wonder if the NFA has ever been challenged on that point.
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