Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by 1952Sniper, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Red Neck64

    Red Neck64 Former Guest

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    Yepper,EDC Now I know.I was thinking it was something like poring hot wax into bird shot,and creating a slug I did that works good,but "J-B Weld" is much better I've shot Deer with it in desperate times past.PS, Nuh uh=Naw I went to look up Naw for meaning but cant find it?
  2. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    You have GOT to be yanking my chain....:D

    Learn something new every day...Very interesting.

    Crpdeth
  3. Red Neck64

    Red Neck64 Former Guest

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    Crpdeth,Naw not me!
  4. LIKTOSHOOT

    LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member

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    Don`t bother with JB Weld..........just pick up those wet duck shells in the bottom of the boat, thats a for sure steel slug. Watched someone shoot these all day and never hit a duck......for the life of me I could not figure out what I was seeing when he fired that shotgun, looked like a GIANT BB sailing towards a duck.................LMAO

    Good story, maybe I`ll tell it............
    ......that and the, "I never fired a shot, but filled my daily limit"

    Both stories will have you in tears............



    LTS
  5. Red Neck64

    Red Neck64 Former Guest

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    That's a shot that went over my head I don't see the correlation.Must just be me?
  6. Enzo_Guy

    Enzo_Guy New Member

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    Have you considered the Remington #4x6 turkey load? I've learned recently that this is the round used the special forces urban assault units, most notably Delta Force.
  7. Red Neck64

    Red Neck64 Former Guest

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    It don't take a much lead or power to kill a man.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2006
  8. Enzo_Guy

    Enzo_Guy New Member

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    True, but the 4x6 is a mixture of #4 and #6 shot rolled into a single shell, capable of large amounts of damage I hear. It has the power of #4 with a larger spread of #6, sounds nice enough to me!
  9. Red Neck64

    Red Neck64 Former Guest

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    Mixed shot size I like it and will try it out,just might be a good running rabbit load also.
  10. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs.
    Well I needed an excuse for missing ducks. "Yep these shells been in the bottom of the boat almost all season." :D
  11. rick's red dawg

    rick's red dawg New Member

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    lots of folks use the 4x6 loads on turkey but i am pretty sure a man wouldnt know the difference between them and just plain ole 4s or 6s
  12. Red Neck64

    Red Neck64 Former Guest

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  13. Enzo_Guy

    Enzo_Guy New Member

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    Something I read not long ago was about penetration. We talk about these larger loads, but in reality some of them would go clean through the walls. At the typical home-engagment distance (less than 15 feet) birdshot is the best to use. There isn't quite enough room for it to spread so it makes quite a big hole in whoever, but it has the least wall penetration of any shotgun rounds (save for rock salt and rubber).
  14. LIKTOSHOOT

    LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member

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    Duplex shotgun loads are hardly anything new, and while some of the most remembered were used in the pacific theater...buckshot with smaller filler shot in the voids, and I guess it worked on paper. You don`t know what you`ve been shot with until you look, so down you go. I imagine as far back a s black powder duplex loads have been in use in private and some are even loaded today and mass produced. Of all designs of firearms, the shotgun remains the king of delivery systems.



    LTS
  15. 45Smashemflat

    45Smashemflat New Member

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    Saw a good article on the "old wet steel" load situation where the author DID hit the ducks and was puzzled by the 1.5" hole straight through them....

    JB Weld? Seems to me that would work, but 1 oz slugs are pretty cheap too...

    Back in the ol' Turkey Shoot days, it was common to lick the targets to check for molassass.....
  16. Recon 173

    Recon 173 Member

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    My favorite is a 12 guage shotgun loaded with 00 buck for those "bump in the night social events." My back up handgun is either a Glock 22-C in .40 S&W caliber or a Sig P-220 in .45 acp. Both of my firearms are backed up by a sheath knife of some sort.
  17. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Recon, I just woke up, and realised you are, or were, attatched to the 'Third Herd', the finest Regiment in the 101 Abn Division; good for you; I came home to "B Med" (326 med, B company), in 1973, as we were moving into Fort Campbell, Ky.
    Use Birdshot, and piss a doctor off, but make your attorney smile!
    If you use 00 Buck, you look like a predator, hungry for a fight, when you get to court, and, Criminal, or Civil, you will get there; with birdshot (#7-8-9), you were using a sporting, not a martial, arm, so things 'relax', a bit.
    Shot load is about the same weight, thus the impact value is the same, and the 'bad guy' is gonna hit the floor in the same spot
    His doctor, should he survive, will have a lot more work, because of the smaller and more plentiful projeciles, but that is not your/my problem!
  18. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Member

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    It always amazes me that someone actually believes there will be insufficient penetration using bird shot in a shotgun in home-room distances and a 12 bore gun to put it out there.

    I witnessed an autopsy or two over the years and for a long time I had some pics I used to show for my CCW classes. They were to make a very valid point of what happens when or if you actually have to pull the trigger and the real time results.
    Well, one of these happens to be what is left of a biker dude who WAS
    about 6'6" in life and took a load of #81/2 through his vest, a leather jacket, a long sleeved plaid wool shirt and what was left of his "wifebeater t shirt>
    The primary impact was right between his sternum and his lt nipple.
    Guys, there is a hole actually a ragged hole about the size of or just a little larger than a golf ball all the way through. His insides are jelly, filled with little pieces of leather, wool and denim and in the route of this shot string there are no bones whole, left in its path. What bone is there or was there is mixed with the leather and denim inside his chest cavity.

    So say as you will, do not believe when someone tells you bird shot will not do the trick.
    That is just lunacy if you really think about it.
    AS Stash and others have said one might want to consider what comes after as well as the law suites and just dealing with the police in your area is a horrible thing. So the more innocent one can appear in the face of having to defend hearth and home can make a hell of a lot of difference.
    It is going to cost you more money than you can imagine no matter how "justified" you are and you would be very wise to see and to know how your particular county or states attorney with the use of deadly force and how he or she intends to prosecute as every one of them do.

    Then, as I have said many times before, I do not nor should you have to worry ever if you have everything else in place to help keep you safe and to provide your early warnings. If all you have is your gun and your locked front door, you truly are in some serious trouble and not even close to being prepared, so as pointed out, your response time will be so critical it is going to be a toss-up as to whether you and your loved ones ever get to a gun to try to stop the threat.
    I sincerely hope all of you are much better prepared than that and after lloking at so many of your posts I am sure you are. This seems to me to be a pretty savvy bunch of guys and gals who take thier SD seriously and share a lot in so doing.
    BTW, PLEASE, do not forget to practice your actions with your wife and all other family members. I have been a proponent of this for many years and have helped people establish their routines and what they want as a part of and how to use their early warning system. It is like everything else though and maybe worse, if you don't practice your actions they will NOT HAPPEN the way you want or at best it will be a crap shoot with the outcome heavily weighed against you. Know everything you are going to do and be sure everyone else in your household knows this as well. They and you will not have time to perfect it in the face of your attacker. It must be rote, instinct so deeply imbedded there is no actual thought process that takes place, you just DO.

    Good luck guys and stay safe

    UncleFudd
  19. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Fudd, WTF do I know?
    A shot load, at 7 yards or less, is a solid wad of projectile, regardless of the shot size.
    Buck may give the impression I was looking for trouble, to a jury, birdshot does not; my premise, in a basket!
    That it does the same job, at defensive ranges, and cheaper, is just icing on the cake!
    But, Given the opportunity, I have three very anti-social dogs, all Australian Cattle Dogs (you may know them as Red, or Blue, Heelers) who have no use for humankind, except for me; I am there 'person', and with me, they are loving, and affectionate; any of them would die in my defense, without a question.
    My house is not the one a smart feller would want to rob; a dog that can 'load' a ton of bull, into a trailer, even the meanest I have ever seen, is a force to be recokened with!
    My big fat bitch, Brandy, can jump over my shoulder, from a 'sit', and all can climb a ladder, catch a frisbee, etc. so my 'first line' is a single word, and an open door; the shotgun is here, to protect the dogs!
    I love these guys, enough that they are provided for, in my will. They do their job, and I, mine.
    I mean here, not to start controversy, rather, to point out emperic fact.
    We have likely the "High tech" Army, on the planet, with personal night vision gear, and such, SOP, but we still use dogs, for security.
    Why?
    I holler 'Yo', and I have roughly 120 pounds of 'attitude, with teeth', at my ankles; no man can run faster, or further, than these animals, and directed, I truly believe no man could stand before them.
    We joke on another board, about Brandy, huge for the breed, but all solid muscle; 48# of muscle, and 17" to the wither; my 'designated trainer', and 'personal assassin'.
    Nothing, and nobody, gets between she and me, without a release word, which she sometimes questions.
    My 6'5" son in law, a Texas State Trooper, and a fine young man, would readily attest; she can jump to the level of his face, with no effort!
    I have no urge to tax the court system here, with another inquest, about a shooting, for whatever reason; if one of my animals chews some bastard up, it is relatively 'cut and dried'; Three district Court Judges, here, have had the pleasure of their presence, with no issue.
    I humbly suggest, as good a weapon as a shotgun can be, there are better tools; I live with mine.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2008
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