Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by 1952Sniper, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Recon 173

    Recon 173 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2008
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    Location:
    Central Illinois
    My favorite is a 12 guage shotgun loaded with 00 buck for those "bump in the night social events." My back up handgun is either a Glock 22-C in .40 S&W caliber or a Sig P-220 in .45 acp. Both of my firearms are backed up by a sheath knife of some sort.
  2. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Central Texas
    Recon, I just woke up, and realised you are, or were, attatched to the 'Third Herd', the finest Regiment in the 101 Abn Division; good for you; I came home to "B Med" (326 med, B company), in 1973, as we were moving into Fort Campbell, Ky.
    Use Birdshot, and piss a doctor off, but make your attorney smile!
    If you use 00 Buck, you look like a predator, hungry for a fight, when you get to court, and, Criminal, or Civil, you will get there; with birdshot (#7-8-9), you were using a sporting, not a martial, arm, so things 'relax', a bit.
    Shot load is about the same weight, thus the impact value is the same, and the 'bad guy' is gonna hit the floor in the same spot
    His doctor, should he survive, will have a lot more work, because of the smaller and more plentiful projeciles, but that is not your/my problem!
  3. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Member

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    Mar 23, 2008
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    Location:
    Phoenix, Az
    It always amazes me that someone actually believes there will be insufficient penetration using bird shot in a shotgun in home-room distances and a 12 bore gun to put it out there.

    I witnessed an autopsy or two over the years and for a long time I had some pics I used to show for my CCW classes. They were to make a very valid point of what happens when or if you actually have to pull the trigger and the real time results.
    Well, one of these happens to be what is left of a biker dude who WAS
    about 6'6" in life and took a load of #81/2 through his vest, a leather jacket, a long sleeved plaid wool shirt and what was left of his "wifebeater t shirt>
    The primary impact was right between his sternum and his lt nipple.
    Guys, there is a hole actually a ragged hole about the size of or just a little larger than a golf ball all the way through. His insides are jelly, filled with little pieces of leather, wool and denim and in the route of this shot string there are no bones whole, left in its path. What bone is there or was there is mixed with the leather and denim inside his chest cavity.

    So say as you will, do not believe when someone tells you bird shot will not do the trick.
    That is just lunacy if you really think about it.
    AS Stash and others have said one might want to consider what comes after as well as the law suites and just dealing with the police in your area is a horrible thing. So the more innocent one can appear in the face of having to defend hearth and home can make a hell of a lot of difference.
    It is going to cost you more money than you can imagine no matter how "justified" you are and you would be very wise to see and to know how your particular county or states attorney with the use of deadly force and how he or she intends to prosecute as every one of them do.

    Then, as I have said many times before, I do not nor should you have to worry ever if you have everything else in place to help keep you safe and to provide your early warnings. If all you have is your gun and your locked front door, you truly are in some serious trouble and not even close to being prepared, so as pointed out, your response time will be so critical it is going to be a toss-up as to whether you and your loved ones ever get to a gun to try to stop the threat.
    I sincerely hope all of you are much better prepared than that and after lloking at so many of your posts I am sure you are. This seems to me to be a pretty savvy bunch of guys and gals who take thier SD seriously and share a lot in so doing.
    BTW, PLEASE, do not forget to practice your actions with your wife and all other family members. I have been a proponent of this for many years and have helped people establish their routines and what they want as a part of and how to use their early warning system. It is like everything else though and maybe worse, if you don't practice your actions they will NOT HAPPEN the way you want or at best it will be a crap shoot with the outcome heavily weighed against you. Know everything you are going to do and be sure everyone else in your household knows this as well. They and you will not have time to perfect it in the face of your attacker. It must be rote, instinct so deeply imbedded there is no actual thought process that takes place, you just DO.

    Good luck guys and stay safe

    UncleFudd
  4. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Joined:
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    2,811
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Fudd, WTF do I know?
    A shot load, at 7 yards or less, is a solid wad of projectile, regardless of the shot size.
    Buck may give the impression I was looking for trouble, to a jury, birdshot does not; my premise, in a basket!
    That it does the same job, at defensive ranges, and cheaper, is just icing on the cake!
    But, Given the opportunity, I have three very anti-social dogs, all Australian Cattle Dogs (you may know them as Red, or Blue, Heelers) who have no use for humankind, except for me; I am there 'person', and with me, they are loving, and affectionate; any of them would die in my defense, without a question.
    My house is not the one a smart feller would want to rob; a dog that can 'load' a ton of bull, into a trailer, even the meanest I have ever seen, is a force to be recokened with!
    My big fat bitch, Brandy, can jump over my shoulder, from a 'sit', and all can climb a ladder, catch a frisbee, etc. so my 'first line' is a single word, and an open door; the shotgun is here, to protect the dogs!
    I love these guys, enough that they are provided for, in my will. They do their job, and I, mine.
    I mean here, not to start controversy, rather, to point out emperic fact.
    We have likely the "High tech" Army, on the planet, with personal night vision gear, and such, SOP, but we still use dogs, for security.
    Why?
    I holler 'Yo', and I have roughly 120 pounds of 'attitude, with teeth', at my ankles; no man can run faster, or further, than these animals, and directed, I truly believe no man could stand before them.
    We joke on another board, about Brandy, huge for the breed, but all solid muscle; 48# of muscle, and 17" to the wither; my 'designated trainer', and 'personal assassin'.
    Nothing, and nobody, gets between she and me, without a release word, which she sometimes questions.
    My 6'5" son in law, a Texas State Trooper, and a fine young man, would readily attest; she can jump to the level of his face, with no effort!
    I have no urge to tax the court system here, with another inquest, about a shooting, for whatever reason; if one of my animals chews some bastard up, it is relatively 'cut and dried'; Three district Court Judges, here, have had the pleasure of their presence, with no issue.
    I humbly suggest, as good a weapon as a shotgun can be, there are better tools; I live with mine.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2008
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