LGS says better stock up!

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by ryan42, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Graehaven on this one. Most of Europe has next to nothing in the way of a real military because they are under the protection of the United States. We're doing everything like imperialists except collecting the tribute.

    The United States are involved in nearly every military conflict worldwide. Why??? Don't give me some BS about "protecting our interests" or any nonsense like that. No matter who is in control of random parts of the Middle East, they're going to export oil. It's their only source of income; it's how they feed themselves.

    Let China pay for wars that affect them. Let Germany pay for wars that affect them. Let Brazil pay for wars that affect them. We don't need to spend a $1,000,000,000,000+ every year to fight everyone else's fights.

    The wars in Iraq (both times), Bosnia, Libya, etc. have done very little to make this "the land of the free." After the first month, neither has most of what we've done in Afghanistan.

    I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I genuinely believe that the majority of our military actions have very little to do with national defense, at least not the defense of this nation.
  2. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    You are not the minority. I strongly agree with what you are saying. It does gripe me that we afford the wars of the world on our dime. The spending machine is out of control. The point that I am making is that Iran would take us out in a heartbeat. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, made the comment that "Isreal is a blot that should be wiped off the map." Later we went on to say the same abot the U.S. The terrible thing is the world laughs knowing that we will foot the bill. I'll bet they won't be there when we need them.
  3. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    CampingJosh and Graehaven - I mean NO disrespect to either of you, or to those who serve your opinion. The point I am trying to make is that to disreguard the fact that there are those who would give all to see you and yours dead, and that we MUST protect ourselves and those who would face the same fate is simply an invitation to certain doom.

    I see the points both of you make: We as a nation DO spend vast quantity of treasure where others sit on the side-lines and wait, as cattle in a slaughter pen, for the worst to happen to someone else.

    WAIT FOR FOR WARS THAT EFFECT US? They ALL affect us. If you, as a steer in a slaughter yard, wait for the grim reaper to touch you, - it is much too late.

    This IS the "the land on the free". This hasn't happened because our fathers (or even some of us) sat on the sidelines and waited our turn. Let Europe, the Red Chineese or any other people wait THEIR turn at the slaughter pen. When there is a nation that would do us harm, I for one say prepare for action to stop them. Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. That is ONE quote that I firmly believe in.

    We are NOT Imperialists. We expect nothing in return for what we do. Remember how the Liberal Media claimed that going after Saddam in Iraq was 'George Bush's War for Oil"? I don't recall us getting ONE DROP of that supposed oil. We don't seek land or riches as "Imperialists". As for Afghanistan, we have taken away the safe haven for those who murdered nearly 3000 of our brothers and sisters. Our weak-knee national leadership is about to throw that effort away, but our military has done what they are supposed to do. My war was LONG ago, but today's kids are fabulous.

    Bosnia, Lybia and Somalia? Those were half hearted efforts by leadership that was affraid to lead. Wanted to 'Win the War from the Air' so as "to not risk American lives". You're going to do something, gotta grow a pair and do it.
  4. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    No they wouldn't; they can't. They do not have a rocket that can deliver a nuclear weapon to the US.
    They do have a rocket that can deliver a nuclear weapon to Israel. And Israel is quite capable of taking care of the issue on their own. If we will make it clear that we won't interfere, they'll take care of the issue on their own dime.

    We're the richest guy in the bar, but we're paying the tab for everyone without considering that most have a pocket full of cash to pay for themselves. Most of our interests can be served without us taking care of it ourselves.
  5. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Those half-hearted efforts cost billions of dollars. What was the point? How can we possibly support those wars or the idiots who wage them?

    I agree that we're not imperialists. But we are about halfway there. We offer protection to the rest of the world, and we keep our military forces around the world. The only part that is missing is that something in return.

    I would rather we be imperialist than this nonsense we're doing now.
  6. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    +1, I am sick and tired of my taxpayer money going to these wars.

    We have become such a dumb nation, we go to war in these countries, spend 100s of billions of dollars on military action and then spend 100s of billions of dollars rebuilding their nations for them.
  7. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

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    The litmus test I began sharing with my son a year or so ago (he's 16) and was reinforcing the other day is, "who stands to gain money and power" from what's going on? It's about money and power. That's what it's always been about. Look for the consolidation of money and power and that will tell you where the truth lies.

    It's not about our interests. It's not about oil. It's not about spreading "democracy" (we're a republic btw, or used to be - big difference.)

    It IS about money and power.

    Another thing I'm teaching him, the political parties are NOT your friends. They no longer represent the people. The individual reps don't either. Look at the money and power being wielded by these people. The average joe CANNOT run for office. Not even at the local level.

    Money and power.

    NONE of the presidents from the past 100 years got it right. NONE of them were true conservatives - or constitutional. Read the constitution, then read history - all they were doing was furthering an agenda to ultimately bring the American people to a place of a socialism dictatorship. Period. And because we don't know our history, and we don't know the constitution, and we don't hold our reps accountable - we got what we're getting now: an irrelevant congress, a supreme court with NO cajones, and a supreme dictator in the WH.

    You got what you wanted America. Enjoy.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  8. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Ditto.
  9. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

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    LOL, sorry I added to it.

    I know you and I and most of us on here are closer together in our ideologies, than we are apart on our differences. For the most part, our group here on TFF are freedom loving patriots, we just sometimes disagree on how we got to the place we're at now, and how to reverse it.

    Unfortunately, I don't believe it can be reversed. We are reaping what we've sown.

    God help us. :D
  10. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth. I can't stand the fact that we wage the money for the wars. But it's like, once you throw the first punch, that's it your fighting. Clearly I can see both sides. These threads can really take interesting rabbit trails.
  11. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    I officially apologize to the OP for derailing the original thread.

    I too plan on stocking up on ammo, and have been. I don't reload, but would like to get into that. I've been reading a "soup to nuts" book on the subject when I have time (I have 5 other book going as well). :D
  12. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    First, my profound apology for skipping off the original post, and for any offense taken by my choice of wording to the Members here. Secondly, my final word to CampingJosh about Iran. As far as 'They would'nt - they could'nt (I presume attack us with nuclear or chemical weapons?)' - They are giving it the old college try to enhance their delivery system so they CAN. WHEN (not 'if') they CAN, they WILL.
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