polishshooter
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 380
(5/3/01 8:34:18 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All Little Boy and Fat Man
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OK, let's start the debate. Was the A-bomb necessary to end WWII?
On the one side is the fact the home islands were in fact strangled by the Silent Service and Air, and dying a slow death. Tojo had already resigned, the Emperor was already wavering, tentative peace feelers had been put forward.
On the other hand, we had a mutinous army in Europe rebelling on the first announcements they were being transferred to Japan after finishing "their war." Operation Downfall and the previous ones as well had indeed predicted 1,000,000 allied casualties (NOT deaths.)
The US public was getting antsy, wanted the war to end, may not have tolerated another invasion where the sea ran red with US blood.
I won't tell what I think until later, BUT my 17 year old son says we did the Japanese a favor. Sounds cold, but his reasoning is that the Japanese were training civilians with spears and kamikaze lunge mines. They were hoarding whole air wings with fuel for massed Kamikaze attacks bigger than any we had ever seen. Kamikaze speedboats were in every cove, the "Militia" was armed.
The resulting bloodbath would have so fired up the US public that we would STILL be in full occupation status, maybe still fighting! Japan would NOT have had the benevolent MacArthur I as "Precept" and the Emperor would have been deposed. As a result, the Japanese Nation and economy would NEVER be what it is today WITHOUT the bomb.
Funny thing is, I can't argue with him too much...
Kdubya
Moderator
Posts: 213
(5/3/01 10:39:20 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Little Boy and Fat Man
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The lad has it correct, as far as I'm concerned, Polish -
Not only did it bring the Japanese to their senses and get them off the fence for ending the war, it demonstrated to the world just what nuclear war meant, and I believe those images of destruction in the minds of those with access to the buttons is what deterred further nuclear warfare since.
Also, only the most bloody minded wanted an invasion - on both sides of the conflict. Everyone else knew it was going to be a terrible, terrible fight with no holds barred. I was old enough ( to remember the ending and the feeling of relief by all that the long ordeal was over and peacetime activities would be the norm.
Keep off the Ridgeline!!
Rons Toys
Moderator
Posts: 94
(5/4/01 6:48:52 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Little Boy and Fat Man
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After we destroyed their industry, we helped them to rebuild and by doing so we also gave them the base to grow their mfg. They were able to increase their quality because all the machines were new. I worked as a diemaker in the mid 70's and our stamping presses were pre-WWI, at the same time the Japanese had much newer equiptment and was able to produce cars that were of better quality. Many people have said it's the American workers fault for poor quailty but you can't produce quality if you're working with junk.
Ron
polishshooter
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 434
(5/8/01 9:19:37 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Little Boy and Fat Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, I learned something last night on the History Channel before I went to bed...
Hitler sent the U 234 to Japan in the last months of the war with a half ton of Uranium 235, some scientists who were working on Germany's bomb, escorted by two Jap naval officers. They were en route when VE day happened, and when they surfaced to dispose of the two Japs who committed hara kiri on board, were captured.
It convinced us the Japs were close to their own bomb, and Hitler was hoping they could explode one off a US west coast city and take pressure off him.
I knew of the extensive Jap R&D in Korea into the atom bomb, but never knew of the U234 before.
Now more than ever you can understand why Harry said yes...
We knew the Nazis were close, now we had evidence so were the Japs...Is there ANY question they would have used it against us? Hell, the Nazis had already put a bomber over New York City as a test...and I'm sure the Japs would have found a sub and crew to kamikaze a bomb into Pearl or San Francisco Harbor...
We just won the "race."
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 380
(5/3/01 8:34:18 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All Little Boy and Fat Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, let's start the debate. Was the A-bomb necessary to end WWII?
On the one side is the fact the home islands were in fact strangled by the Silent Service and Air, and dying a slow death. Tojo had already resigned, the Emperor was already wavering, tentative peace feelers had been put forward.
On the other hand, we had a mutinous army in Europe rebelling on the first announcements they were being transferred to Japan after finishing "their war." Operation Downfall and the previous ones as well had indeed predicted 1,000,000 allied casualties (NOT deaths.)
The US public was getting antsy, wanted the war to end, may not have tolerated another invasion where the sea ran red with US blood.
I won't tell what I think until later, BUT my 17 year old son says we did the Japanese a favor. Sounds cold, but his reasoning is that the Japanese were training civilians with spears and kamikaze lunge mines. They were hoarding whole air wings with fuel for massed Kamikaze attacks bigger than any we had ever seen. Kamikaze speedboats were in every cove, the "Militia" was armed.
The resulting bloodbath would have so fired up the US public that we would STILL be in full occupation status, maybe still fighting! Japan would NOT have had the benevolent MacArthur I as "Precept" and the Emperor would have been deposed. As a result, the Japanese Nation and economy would NEVER be what it is today WITHOUT the bomb.
Funny thing is, I can't argue with him too much...
Kdubya
Moderator
Posts: 213
(5/3/01 10:39:20 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Little Boy and Fat Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The lad has it correct, as far as I'm concerned, Polish -
Not only did it bring the Japanese to their senses and get them off the fence for ending the war, it demonstrated to the world just what nuclear war meant, and I believe those images of destruction in the minds of those with access to the buttons is what deterred further nuclear warfare since.
Also, only the most bloody minded wanted an invasion - on both sides of the conflict. Everyone else knew it was going to be a terrible, terrible fight with no holds barred. I was old enough ( to remember the ending and the feeling of relief by all that the long ordeal was over and peacetime activities would be the norm.
Keep off the Ridgeline!!
Rons Toys
Moderator
Posts: 94
(5/4/01 6:48:52 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Little Boy and Fat Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After we destroyed their industry, we helped them to rebuild and by doing so we also gave them the base to grow their mfg. They were able to increase their quality because all the machines were new. I worked as a diemaker in the mid 70's and our stamping presses were pre-WWI, at the same time the Japanese had much newer equiptment and was able to produce cars that were of better quality. Many people have said it's the American workers fault for poor quailty but you can't produce quality if you're working with junk.
Ron
polishshooter
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 434
(5/8/01 9:19:37 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Little Boy and Fat Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, I learned something last night on the History Channel before I went to bed...
Hitler sent the U 234 to Japan in the last months of the war with a half ton of Uranium 235, some scientists who were working on Germany's bomb, escorted by two Jap naval officers. They were en route when VE day happened, and when they surfaced to dispose of the two Japs who committed hara kiri on board, were captured.
It convinced us the Japs were close to their own bomb, and Hitler was hoping they could explode one off a US west coast city and take pressure off him.
I knew of the extensive Jap R&D in Korea into the atom bomb, but never knew of the U234 before.
Now more than ever you can understand why Harry said yes...
We knew the Nazis were close, now we had evidence so were the Japs...Is there ANY question they would have used it against us? Hell, the Nazis had already put a bomber over New York City as a test...and I'm sure the Japs would have found a sub and crew to kamikaze a bomb into Pearl or San Francisco Harbor...
We just won the "race."