Live round stuck in my DPMS Panther

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by bluesea112, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    I have a DPMS Panthern chambered in .308 Win. A couple of days ago I was sighting it in and the bolt stuck closed on the 21st shot. I used a rubber mallet and a hard rubber rod to pop the bolt open. After it opened, I cycled the bolt a couple of times by hand and it seemed to work fine. I chambered a round, pulled the trigger, and it worked fine. Pulled the trigger again and it just clicked. The bolt was stuck closed again. Used the same method to open the bolt. I tried to get the live round out of the barrel and it would not move. I tried pulling it out with a pair of pliers, and it would not move at all. After the pliers failed, I carefully inserted a long wooden dowel rod down the barrel from the muzzle end and tapped it with the rubber mallet. The cartridge still did not move at all. Not even a fraction of a millimeter. It is stuck really well.
    Just as an fyi, the cartridge is not butted up again the barrel. There is about 1/4 inch of brass between the cartridge rim and the barrel.
    What in the world would make a cartridge stick in the barrel like that?

    I was shooting factory new .308 Remington ammunition, so it was NOT a malfunction due to a reloading error.
    Any suggestions for getting the live round out of the barrel would be appreciated.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  2. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,278
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Is the extractor/bolt holding the rim of the cartridge?

    If not, allow to bolt to slam home while pointing it in a safe direction, then grasp the charging handle with two fingers and lightly tap the butt of the rifle on a sturdy surface (Work bench/Shooting bench) while applying downward pressure on the charging handle. The round should pop right out.


    Grit will do it for sure...Make sure the throat is good and clean.

    Please don't fire that round after tapping the bullet with the dowel...I would dispose of it.

    Let us know how everything goes.

    Crpdeth
  3. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    Thank you for the suggestion crpdeth, but I tried that when it first happend. It broke the rim of the bullet. Now the bolt will not grip the bullet at all.
  4. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    I also tried spraying penetrating oil down the barrel, hoping it would work it's way down the walls of the bullet. Nope
  5. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,278
    Location:
    Location: Location
    OMG, I didn't realize the rim was broken off.

    I really don't like the idea of the wooden dowel thing, but I suspect that is what a smith will do...Have you tried some CLP? How about letting it sit over night?

    Like I say, I just don't like suggesting that you have your hands over the barrel with a live round chambered, but I know that is what I would do anyway (gingerly) after allowing it to soak in the CLP over night.... If it didn't pop out pretty easily after an all night soaking, I'd carry it to a smith.

    Crp
  6. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    I am not familiar with CLP. Is that a type of oil? Pardon my ignorance.

    Follow up: I drew a blank for a minute because i always call it "break free". That is a good idea. I will try it and see what happens. I have never seen a bullet stick like this one. This is a brand new rifle, so I kind of wonder if there is a metal burr that the bullet has hung on. However, I would have thought that it would have happend during the barrel break in. I fired 20 rounds, with a good cleaning between each shot, and I never had a round stick.
    I will let you know how the CLP works. I really appreciate your help Crpdeth.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2007
  7. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,278
    Location:
    Location: Location
    I should have called it Break free...That was my fault.

    Definitely could be a metal burr or something Blue, do you have any spent casings to look at?

    Crpdeth
  8. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    That is a great suggestion. I think I have a few that I was able to keep. That DPMS is EXTREMELY hard on rims, and most of them are bent to a point that they start to rip where the extractor pulls on them.
  9. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,278
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Thats not normal Blue...Something is wrong and I'd stop everything and take the weapon and those damaged cases to a good gunsmith before firing it again...Did you find any burrs on the case necks?

    Crpdeth
  10. Texman

    Texman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    362
    Yep, take it to your trusted gun smith,, I had a pump shot gun do that some years ago and when I laid it on the smiths counter and told him the problem, I thought he was going to pass out... that stuck shell could go off with the bolt closed when you least expect it, you also mentioned that some spent cartrigens were bent or nicked? what up with that.. A gun smith is in order,, and sooner than later.

    just my nickels worth.
  11. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2003
    Messages:
    2,811
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Sounds a lot like the previous round separated a case, with the brass protrusion, as you describe.
    Get the bolt out of the issue, and use a .30 cal jag, on a solid rod, to beat that bugger out, thru the chamber; with no bolt, it won't go 'bang'; then inspect the chamber; and, if you still have the front half of the case, in there, you now have all the room in the world, to remove it, with a proper tool!
  12. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    There is no damage on the spent cases. Not even a scratch. I think Stash may have something. A seperated case would explain the bolt sticking shut on the previous shot. Guess I will try to pop that round out with a solid rod. Instead of tapping the rod with a mallet, I think I will weld a washer to the rod so that the washer is positioned 2" outside of the muzzle. Then I could drill a hole through the center of a 5 ounce ball of lead and send the lead ball sliding down the rod towards the washer....kind of a make shift slide hammer. That way my hand will be out of the way when the lead hits the washer, making the rod push on the nose of the bullet. If for any reason it goes off, I will still have all my fingers to squeeze caulk into the hole in the roof.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  13. LDBennett

    LDBennett Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,291
    Location:
    Hesperia, CA
    bluesea112:

    Beating the cartridge case out of the barrel is indeed a safety problem. I'd disassemble the gun getting the bolt out. Using a long rod (brass would be safer for the bore) that sticks out of the barrel at least 6 inches, I'd beat on the stuck case through the muzzle end (send the cartridge back the way it came in). Well aimed deliberate blows is what it is going to take. The bullet will push into the case, the blows will probably collapse the shoulder of the case but it will eventually exit. I too think there is another seperated case left in the chamber. You'll have to get that out too.

    If all the cases show damage to the rim from the extractor (???) then you have a timing problem with this gun. If you have too much gas pressure getting to the bolt to operate it in extraction, the bolt will try to remove the spent cartridge before the pressure has subsided enough and the case is still forced against the chamber wall. Damaged rims are the best case in this scenerio and case separtions are the worst. Sounds like maybe you got the case sereration case and the new round slipped into the remains of the previous case. Assuming you have regualr ammo and not pressure test ammo and if the above is all true, that gun needs to go back to the manufacturer if it is new or to a gunsmith if it is used. The gun is dangerous!

    LDBennett
  14. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,713
    Please stop referring to the cartridge as a "bullet." It kind of confuses the issue. Try putting the rifle in a freezer overnight. It is possible the case may come out easily immediately after removing from freezer.
  15. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,278
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Just curious how this turned out Blue...Everything work out okay?

    Crpdeth
  16. LDBennett

    LDBennett Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,291
    Location:
    Hesperia, CA
    wonderwhippet:

    You referring to me? The place where I used "bullet" I meant the bullet!

    "The bullet will push into the case,"

    What we are assuming here is that there has been a case seperation and a loaded cartridge case (with a bullet) is stuck into the chamber on top of the seperated case. If you beat on the cartridge from the muzzle end of the barrel then the bullet will sink inside the case, probably.

    I think that to be proper usage???????

    LDBennett
  17. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    I finally had a few minutes to work on it. Unfortunately, I did not have any luck. I used a brasss rod, and the end of the rod flattened out from my blows. I would have thought that it would have broken through the casing before it flattened out. I don't get it.
    I am going to try the freezer idea. This has become a mission.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2007
  18. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,278
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Lynn, I think Wonder was referring to Blue's first post.

    Well, let us know how it turns out, Blue. I'm curious as heck.

    Crpdeth
  19. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,326
    Location:
    West, TX
    Sorry about the confusion WonderWhippet. It peves me too when people do that, and then I went and did it. (smile). I went back and edited my first post and changed "bullet" to "cartridge".
    By the way, I walked over to the freezer a little while ago to get some ice cream and forgot I had put my rifle in there. For the first millisecond after opening the freezer door, I thought "I've never had this dream before". lol
  20. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2003
    Messages:
    2,811
    Location:
    Central Texas
    I may have another plan.
    Kroil, from Cano Labs, (not sure of the spelling; may be Kano) it the most ferocious penetrant I've ever seen; put three ounces in an apothecary's jar, with the ground glass stopper in place, invert it once, and tomorrow, the outside will be oily, to the touch; next best I have found BG Chemicals'(Automotive) 'Inforce', to work very well, and it's a lot easier to find, and cheaper, than Kroil!
    Either works so good, around the shop, that the running instructions are: (1) Apply liberally, (2) Duck! The bolts come loose rapidly, with either!
    a teaspoon of either, poured down the bore, and allowed to 'soak' for 24 hours or so, will likely not only 'kill' the primer, and powder, but 'loosen things up', a bunch; If my memory is correct, this rifle is nothing but a 'Man Caliber' (this will catch some heat) AR15 clone.
    Meaning, push the pin, lose the lower, and deal with the upper like a stopped up pipe!
    Years ago, we used a steel cleaning rod, plus one section, to clear 'chamber jams', from a separated case, on the M-16, then a 'torn case extractor', to fix the problem, at least for a short while; this was on some early rifles, most, before chrome.
    An approved and authorised Army procedure, then.
    The 'extra section' allows you to 'capture' the bullet. in the thread of the rod, and not damage the bore; it was 'sacrificial', but cheap; we had rods, needed rifles!
    Hope this helps!
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Technical Questions & Information Need help with a jammed live round Feb 11, 2013
Technical Questions & Information PPS43: Bolt Locked on Live Round Aug 5, 2012
Technical Questions & Information Clearing live round from Iver Special trap Sep 21, 2009
Technical Questions & Information R1 Enhanced fails to lock slide open after last round fires Apr 5, 2014
Technical Questions & Information Weaver Round Bottom Scope Base Jan 17, 2014