load data on shortened "Indiana Legal" .35 Remington

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Phragus, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Phragus

    Phragus New Member

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    Indiana now says a legal cartridge for hunting must be no longer than 1.8". I am trimming my .35 Rem down to that length. I have heard many in the area are doing this but I am not able to get loading data. I will be greatful for any input the forum may have.
  2. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    that would eliminate almost all the popular calibers used to hunt deer. better recheck your info. heck my 30-30 measures 2.53" and thats factoey ammo. legal for hunting in all 50 states.
  3. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    You are wrong, hunter29180. Rifles are illegal for hunting in several of the more northern states. Might be a "population" thing.

    http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/7389.htm

    Once at that page, click on "equipment"

    >What are the rifle cartridge size requirements for Firearms Season?

    Cartridges must fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger and have a case length between 1.16 and 1.8 inches. Examples of legal cartridges now include the .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf as well as the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Special and others.<

    So, in Indiana, they seem to be allowing rifles in "pistol calibers", now. Used to was, I believe, it was "shotgun only".
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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  5. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Phragus, it says "case length" l.8" or less, not cartridge. BIIIIG damn difference.

    35 Remington case is only 1.92, so trimming 1/10 of an inch shouldn't make that much difference.

    http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd35remington.jpg

    http://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-35-rem.html

    I'd get in touch with Lee and see if their Factory Crimp Die would adjust down far enough to crimp a case that short. If so, I'd get one, and then trim my cases, but load to standard length, and use the FCD to get a good crimp on the bullet.
  6. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected! Thanks ALPO!:)
  7. Rogeritall

    Rogeritall Member

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    I agree with this... I'm setting here looking at the Indiana 2012 hunting regulations book, and it is worded the same. Even though you may be able to modify the shell case to the regulation 1.8", all the data I have points to a trim to length of 1.910". The intent of the law was to allow hunting with rifles chambered in handgun calibers... My wife just took a deer yesterday with a .44 Remmag Marlin rifle at a State park reduction hunt, and takes a deer a year with it during firearms season.

    But, and this may be in the O.P.'s Phragus's favor. If you look further in the regulations to the "Handgun Legal" hunting calibers, it lists all the average calibers, but also includes the .35 Remington, and the .357 Herrett as "Legal" handgun calibers. Then it goes on to list many common calibers that are "Illegal".

    So, if .35 Remington is a "legal handgun caliber" I would think it would be a legal caliber for handgun caliber rifles. But, like most of this stuff you never find out for sure until it's tested in court.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  8. RAJBCPA

    RAJBCPA Member

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    NY has a shotgun only area that includes Long Island. I think handguns are OK, but barrels must be at least 8 inches! ....these guys never stop making new rules because it makes them feel powerful. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to live by them...

    I used to own a 35 Rem lever gun. I never liked it much, so I gave it away as a gift.
  9. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    Boy, this is getting into a real grey area.
    As others have already mentioned, all data for a .35Rem points to 1.92" for a case length. The proclamation states between 1.18" and 1.8".

    So how is the DNR officer that checks your rifle out gonna ensure you're complying? If by measuring the cases you have in your rifle, then you're good to go just by trimming the brass. BUT...if they've got a list of calibers handy they're gonna flip through the list and find that .35Rem is 0.012" too long and write you a ticket.
    I know for a fact that the NoDak Game & Fish Dept wardens use a list of the standard commercial cartridges and their length/diameter (for our handgun requirements)...I can't say what the Indiana guys do.
    Best bet would be to talk with one of the Indiana DNR guys since they're the ones who are enforcing it.

    A loophole around that could be that your rifle is chambered for a wildcat cartridge using the .35Rem as it's parent cartridge. I'd bet that the game warden would want to see the name of the wildcat stamped on the barrel instead of ".35Remington" though.


    Otherwise, as Alpo posted, having brass .012" shorter than spec won't be a problem for finding data. Start at the minimum loads and work up as usual. You might have problems seeing high pressure before you reach the manual's max loads if you're using bulky powders and loads that are near/at 100% load density. Just avoid those loads.
  10. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    seems to me if the statuate sattes a 'case' max length.. then that is what will prevail.

    kinda like having a shotgun that hods 6 rounds with plug removed.. but 3 with it in.. and needing plug in / 3 shot to be legal to hunt. proof is in the pudding.

    IE.. your loaded cases in your pocket or magazine.. if measured .. and trimmed to 1.8 seems that is it.. can't go off the spent cases as they grow at time of shooting.. so must go off loaded cases.

    many firearms have a chamber that would accept a couple different cartridges.. so simply having the chamber marking as the default length is not a good test.

    my rifle chambered for 458 lott also safely chambers 458winmag. a shorter cartridge. In fact. i can't even find any 458 lott locally.. so i've ONLY been shooting 458 win mag in it so far.. :)

    357 chamber shooting 38spl.. etc.

    many examples.

    for cartridges spacing off a rim.. look at a judge and 45lc and 410 shotgun.. same cyl /chamber.. 2 drastically differnt cartridges.

    for chambers that space off the bottleneck.. the cartridge throat being a hair shy ahead of the necking, as others stated shouldn't be an issue.. especially if you can keep loaded COAL the same so lead is the same to rifeling..

    it may be a hassle.. but AFAIK, burden of proof is still on the state. and having a handfulle of cases that meet the laws definition seem to be pretty potent defense evidence to me?
  11. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that is right. A lot more cartridges are OK in handguns than in rifles.

    Any cartridge .243 caliber and up is good in a handgun. In a rifle, though, it's got to be within the defined dimensional limits. That's why the. 458 SOCOM is so popular here now. .45-70 performance in deer legal cartridge.
  12. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    why the S&M /BD hunting laws there?
  13. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Bindernut;

    Our game wardens are very used to wildcats now. The way that law was written has caused several gunsmiths to focus year-round on deer legal wildcats.
    Now, I doubt they carry calipers in the field. But you never know.
  14. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    hey.. i finished that quick giveaway.. so if that sticky needs to leave.. I've already got with the winner and shipped his goody to him i todays mail.. etc.

    thanks
  15. Rogeritall

    Rogeritall Member

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    Yeah, it's very possible that they only allow .35 Rem in Handguns, and not Rifles. Stranger things have happened. But, there are a lot of grey areas in this type of law; and as you I'm sure know Indiana hasn't had the handgun caliber rifle laws for very long overall.
  16. jim summers

    jim summers Active Member

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    I reside in southern Indiana, you can almost step
    You are correct Alpo rifles in certain handgun calibers can be used to hunt deer in Indiana i think this rule went in effect in 07 it is about time Indiana came into the 20 century
  17. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of valid reasons for limiting the useable firearms.

    For one thing, taking a deer with shotgun slugs is a lot more difficult than doing so with a. 30-06, and we haven't always had a huge deer population.
    The northern half of the state is very flat and still decently populated. It's not at all hard to see careless, overzealous hunters shooting into neighborhoods beyond their targets.
    And most importantly, every time they make new cartridges useable, it's an excuse to get another gun! :D:D:D:D:D
  18. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    florida is flat as a pancake too... just have to know your backstop real well.. :)
  19. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    I bet they are. I have relatives in Iowa which has similar regs on what firearms are legal for use. I have no doubt that if it can be built within the legal guidelines there is a smith or hobbyist working on it.
    I never really did understand the shotgun-only BS until I visited them when I was old enough to hunt. Farms are less than a mile apart, used to be lots of shelterbelts between em, and the land is WAY too flat! :D
    Just another attempt of the gub'ment trying to legislate intelligence and common sense. :)
    I had to chuckle about my Iowa cousin's first centerfire rifle when he got a non-resident tag for here in ND. He showed up with a .300WeatherbyMag. Actually, he did buy it for elk in Montana/Wyoming but it's overkill for ND whiltetails! :) I'd hate to see him turn that thing loose in Eastern Iowa...who knows how many barns the bullet would fly past.

    Actually, the way that ND's handgun cartridge requirements were worded for a few years, the .22Hornet was a legal handgun cartridge...but not a legal rifle cartridge. DOH!!!
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
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