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Load Development: Ladder Test

84K views 127 replies 40 participants last post by  Don Fischer 
#1 ·
From time to time we get on the subject of load development here at TFF Ammo and Reloading Forum, and I always recommend the Audette Ladder test to anyone asking my opinion on the best load development method. Its the method I use because its faster than the conventional method of loading 5 at each increment and shooting the groups, its just as definitive, and it saves valuable ammo. Here is a link that describes exactly what the ladder test is and how you use it to develop a load for your rifle or handgun.

http://www.desertsharpshooters.com/manuals/incredload.pdf

I have my own method of doing the Ladder test. Instead of shooting one POA on one target and recording the individual POIs on a separate sheet, I decided it would further simplify the process and eliminate the need for recording where the shots hit on a shooter copy of the target by making up a master sheet (quite large of course) with 20 separate targets on it. Labeling each individual target with the number of the shot and the load it contained. Of course you do all of this before shooting the test and set it up so you work from left to right, and top to bottom. Here is an example of the test i fired today with my savage .308 at 200 yds.
 

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#77 ·
JLA...

Sorry I know it has been a little while since you last posted to this thread... So if you were to pick your "sweet spot" out of the previously listed image.. Which load are you going with?? Shots 12 and 13??? where you have the "x's" ...

I have done ladder tests in the past but never with just a single shot at each load.. I string them.. so you have a load work up with 3 rnds at each charge wt or seating depth...

Then you shoot a string going from say 1 to 5 .. with your timed intervals between of course.. then shoot the string in reverse 5 to 1... then again 1 to 5... This would also show you consistency between the 3 shots and would allow you to eliminate flyers.

I look at the grouping of the 3 shots plus the vertical stringing only of load to load. If you are shooting these at extended ranges greater than 200 wind is a variable .. However it is only left / right ... thus just looking at vertical stringing is key.

I would also say that most rifles like the upper end for their final load.
 
#78 ·
Im not completely sure I understand the post. The purpose of this load development method is to nail down a load with a specific barrel time that will group along with as many load increments as possible below as well as above it. That's the reason for loading between the sweet spots. The rest of the variables can be accounted for later. All youre reading with this development test is vertical whip. The trend is always going to increase as you start low and go up, but you can see the vertical whip stabilize as optimal barrel time is reached, the idea is to select a load that's in the middle of the charge weight range the whip stabilized at and use it to further develop your accurate load. Which for me has been nothing more than playing with bullet seating depth.

You should also know that I use a triplex powder in my .308 long range loads, which I DO NOT recommend anyone try unless they are certain of what they are playing with.. But the idea behind my studies has been to eliminate the excessive round count associated with developing a good load, while at the same time maintaining the quality of the load you end up with.

99% of precision shooting is fundamentals. It sure helps when the load youre using is as consistent as it can be.
 
#80 ·
And the answer to that question is 'Straight lines' Which is the reason for graphing the individual shot targets, so plotting them with a straight edge after firing will point out the flat spots.

It can be read the same way when you fire at a single target to read your results. The sweet spots will share the same POI.

And this is all assuming you are a fundamentally sound shooter. If youre a trigger jerker or a flincher, I would advise you to not even bother with a ladder test until you've received good fundamental training.
 
#81 ·
I realize I'm late to the party, but hopefully someone knowledgeable can answer the question, if I can ask it understandably.

In doing your ladder test, do you repeat it or just go with your initial analysis? The reason I ask is that it seems to me that perhaps, since you have an arbitrary desired point of impact (bullseye), that you are picking the load point that has the bullets hitting closest to that, as opposed to closest to each other. Said another way, perhaps a different load level might produce a tighter group farther away from the bull (though maybe this is "the same, only different").
 
#83 ·
Another late arrival...

I'm in the process of getting my bench set up. I'm loading .40 S&W.

I have 5lbs of Alliant Red Dot. Can anyone shed some light on the charge? Prob be using 180gr bullets.

40 isn't listed on their site. They do list 38 +p and 45 auto though.

Would some of you even advise not using it for my rounds?

Appreciate the input from those of you with FAR MORE experience than I.

I'm on my phone so, admittedly, haven't searched this. Apologies if this has been covered in the past.
 
#84 ·
#85 ·
Hubcap, you are looking for the FLAT spot on your loads. This is where your barrel is back to level from the WAVE of your barell. If that makes sense. JLA can explain better probably.May need to re-read the beginning of this thread to get it. Took me a number of times to understand it.
Don't drink often,but parents were in town today.......LOL
 
#86 ·
Really appreciate it moody.

Actually got that same answer texted to me soon after I typed this.

You guys are a great help. Moody you've been awesome. If we ever catch up, I'll have to get you a handy.

Hookers and blow FTMFW!
 
#89 ·
Guys this method of load development is a means of arriving at an accuracy node fast and efficiently. Once there I do still experiment with small increments within the node as well as seating depth and amount of crimp before settling on my recipe.
 
#94 ·
JLAs approach works well. I made up a couple using poster board and some 2" bullseyes with crosshairs. Using a T square, I carefully aligned them both horizontally and vertically. I took one to a printer to have a bunch made but he said he was afraid of some rights infringement because I had purchased the dots. Oh well, I'll just keep making them the hard way.
 
#99 · (Edited)
You need to take human error out of the equation as much as possible. Sand bags, lead sled, or whatever you have to hold the gun stable.

Round one gets you in the ballpark. Round two zeros in on the best charge.

The second round of the ladder test will also show how your gun groups.

I've only used it twice but it allows me to dial in the powder charge that is the most consistent and best groups.
 
#102 ·
The original post stated that he did his at 200 yards. I've used it at 100 yards too. There could be an advantage with the longer ranges, unless you can't keep shots on paper. :)

Just using bags on a mildly windy day I went to 100 yards. With a lead sled type holding system I went to 200.

Find a distance that will allow you to be very consistent.

Welcome to TFF.
 
#105 ·
I'm brand new here, but I'm happy to find this thread. Ladder tests are one of the things I'm trying to wrap my mind around.
 
#108 ·
I just was able to get a AK47 I have a lot of steel 7.62x39 and since I reload now I would like to work up a recipe for this rifle. What would be the best bullet and powder for this rifle. I also would like to run it in my SKS also. I hear it like 123 grain bullets. And yes I know I will not try to load the steel casing.
 
#109 ·
Get yourself a good reloading book - Hornady makes one of the best. Beginning at page 618, they list several combinations that have been tested and proven safe. Curiously, the preferred bullet diameter depends on the gun, since foreign manufactured AKs and SKSs tend to have bores larger than nominal, and like .310" bullets better than .308". Good luck!
 
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