Long Island Man Arrested For Defending Home With AK-47

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by NRA_guy, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. NRA_guy

    NRA_guy New Member

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    I'm guessing that New York does not have a Castle Law:

    Down South there would be some dead gang bangers in the yard and the only question would be, "Did you run out of ammo?"
  2. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    no charges would be filed around here, it would be on the news and the guy would be a hero
  3. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    I imagine that down "south" as you say, those types of gangs and gang activity are not what they are in the major cities.

    These thugs KNOW they rule.

    As I told my son yesterday, "the police are not here to help you, only to clean up the mess afterward - and you are usually that mess; that and write up a report." Their other job is to "prosecute law abiding citizens with stupid infractions - especially where it concerns defending one's life or property."

    And....here is a perfect example.
  4. flintlock

    flintlock Active Member

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    The home owner would have been in less trouble if the gang members were in his house. Not much less trouble though, we are talking about Long Island. If your life is threatened you don't have a responsibility to retreat in your own home.
  5. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    Regardless, I think this guy is a marked man now by those gang members, and we'll likely hear about it again.

    Perhaps his best bet would have been to take a camera out with him as well, and take several pictures of the group. At least then, the police would have something to go on. You KNOW they aren't going to follow up on threats made by "alleged" gang members.
  6. flintlock

    flintlock Active Member

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    I got curious and looked up the section of NY's code (35.20), and it pretty well spells out what the homeowner could do. Because there was no physical attack at the moment, he could not resort to deadly force, which he didn't do, although that is subject to a judge's interpretation, warning shot =deadly force? If an physical attack had taken place he would have been justified in using deadly force to defend himself and his family. New York is a Castle Doctrine state, but it has no stand your ground rule. Go figure.
  7. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    Whoa whoa whoa, NY is a Castle Doctrine state? Are you sure? do you have the statute for that? As far as I knew, we are not.
  8. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    I don't think we are a castle doctrine state. That would be BIG news here.

    I found this, here:
    Additionally, some states have passed laws that encompass parts of the Castle Doctrine without explicitly calling them such. Some states have also passed a "weak" version of the Castle Doctrine that keeps the duty to retreat but still allows for the use of deadly force in a home invasion. Some of these states include: Idaho, Illinois, Minnesota, and New York. A local criminal defense attorney may be your best resource in determining if the Castle Doctrine may be a viable defense in your case.
    http://www.totalcriminaldefense.com/overview/castle-doctrine.aspx
  9. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    And thats why I live in Florida. Everyone here has a weapon somewhere.
  10. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    last night there was a shooting in louisville, what i picked up on the news was that a guy and girl were confronted by a man, they ended up fighting, the first guy shot the perp, cops detained him and then released him after confirming it was self defense
  11. flintlock

    flintlock Active Member

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    Here is where I got the information from Graehaven.
    New York Penal- Article 35-35.20
    1. "Any person may use physical force upon another person when he or she reasonably believes such is necessary to prevent or terminate what he or she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises. Such person may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and may use deadly physical force if he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson."
    2. A person in possession or control of any premises, or a person licensed or priviledged to be thereon or therein, may use physical force upon another when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he or she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission of a crime by such other personof a criminal trespass upon such premises. SUch person may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he or she reasonably believes necessary for such purpose, and may use deadly physical force in order to terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson, as prescribed in subdivision 1, or in the course of a burglary or attempted burglary, as described in subdivision three.
    3. A person in posession or control of, or licensed or priviledged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be neccessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.

    Maybe my understanding of Castle Doctrine is confused, but I think this pretty much covers defense of your home/business, and protection of your life and those of your resident family. It's what you learn after you know it all that makes a difference! I've still got things to learn!
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  12. fas111

    fas111 New Member

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    Every time I read a story like this I thank God I live in South Carolina.
  13. lawdawg

    lawdawg Member

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    There are at least 25 men (according to the story) coming at you shouting that they are going to kill you and your family! I think that should be considered as physical force, and I think that should merit using deadly physical force to defend yourself and your family! I'm not sure about the laws in NY, but here (Alabama) anytime a person has reason to believe his/her life, or the life of another person, is in jeopardy they can use deadly physical force. They can also legally use deadly physical force if they have reason to belive that someone is about to commit kidnapping, assault (1st or 2nd degree), burglary, robbery, forcible rape or sodomy (13A-3-23 Code of Alabama). It SHOULD be that way everywhere! No graehaven gangs are NOT as bad here as in the larger cities (although they are present and are a problem to be reckoned with), and this is a large reason why. We don't mind our citizens defending themselves.
  14. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    It's the same way here in Ohio lawdawg. My only problem with that is that according to my LEO ccw instructor you can not assume that someone crawling through your kitchen window intends to do you harm. It was confusing. As I understand it if they come toward you and refuse to stop you can shoot. If they are merely making entrance you can't. I believe if they're in your home, or attempting to get in your home, anytime, night or day, game on.

    I also believe a person has a right to use deadly force to protect their property. I know the argument is that no physical property is worth a persons life, but I think that is kind of twisted logic and a product of modern thinking. People work hard for the things they have and someone who has no respect for the property of others is taking his own life in his hands. Just my opinion.
  15. lawdawg

    lawdawg Member

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    AGREED! But even with that interpretation when that many people are moving toward you shouting that they are going to kill you and your family, any reasonable person would believe they intend on harming you, whether they are armed or not, and have the potential to do so. One could argue that you could fight off one unarmed person without using deadly physical force, but for every person added to the equation it multiplies the threat level exponentially. As a LEO, I understand that sometimes our hands are tied when it comes to enforcing certain laws, no matter how idiotic those laws are. But NO ONE should EVER be denied the basic human (and Constitutional) right of self defense including the defense of your family. I would not have arrested under those circumstances, unless ordered to do so; and even then would have explained it to the Grand Jury that it was self defense. I always try to use myself as a "measuring stick" when faced with an arrest/don't-arrest scenario. What would I do in this situation? In this case I would have done the same thing this guy did.
  16. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    in kentucky.. if a person breaks into your house. no matter what they are doing, or the situation, you can shoot them on the spot no questions asked.
  17. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Absolutely lawgawg. I fear I wouldn't have shown the restraint to fire into the ground with that bunch around me, and shooting some of them would have been out of sheer terror rather than anger. These gangs are a menace and spreading across the country like weeds. While rationally I know you can't do this, emotionally I'd like to say every one of them should be shot on sight. A lot of this problem could be fixed if we secured our borders and deported them all.
  18. Oneida Steve

    Oneida Steve Active Member

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    "Arrested" is one thing.

    "Convicted" is another. Let's see the DA make his case in front of a jury.
  19. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    if i thought i was going to be convicted.. i dont think i'd go to court that day. then i'd be an outlaw for sure
  20. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    I'm with you, man, I'm with you. :D
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