im lookin at buyin a remington 700 varmit sf in a 223. im lookin for a good accurate rifle at long ranges. i was just wonderin what you guys thought an if you had any other suggestions.
id like to be able to be accurate at 300+ and shooting mostly paper and maybe some ground hogs. i was thinking 223 because of the price per round. i have 2 30-06 and they ammo bills add up quick with those.
reloading will also make this a rather cheap past time if you shoot enough to recoup initial outlay
i shoot out to 500 regularly with .223 ( i have a Tikka T3 ) and have no issues
i recently fired a Savage axis .223 and thought it very good and was able to get a sub 3" group at 300 meters ( 330 yards ) on the second group ( first one was all over until we sorted the loose rail , which was all my fault )
2" would be possible ( or close to it ) with that setup and it was sub $600 here (maybe $450 in the USA ) scope was a little nikkon sterling
How much are you willing to spend? Looking for a wood or synthetic stock? A short, lightweight rifle to carry around on hunts, or a heavy 26" barrel model that won't leave a benchrest? Or something in between?
Remington, Savage, Thompson Center, Weatherby, CZ, Howa, Tikka, and Sako are some notable manufacturers with one or more models of .223 bolt action rifles. I bought a Savage Axis .223 last week.
i was going to get into reloading but i recently found out my girl is pregnant with my fist kid so i need to put that on hold for a while im lucky shes letting me add another gun to the collection(shes a good girl)!! i never considered a tikka or even heard much about them. ill have to do some more research thanks for the advice!
I hear good things about the rifles that come out of Scandinavia. I think Tikka and Sako are partners. It's nice to see whats out there, and not in the local gun shop. Especially the lesser known, smaller companies.
The 700 SF Varnmit I believe comes standard with the 26" "fluted" barrel
and I'm sure it would be a good shooter out to 300yds., but not sure as
to what sort of $'s their going for these days.
I'm a big fan of the Remingtons and own a few myself, but if I was going
to buy new on the .223 Rem., I'd be looking towards the Savage in .223 rem.
with the varnmiter series.
I have a few of the Savages in different calibers and have the 12 in .223 rem.,
and it's "one" of the most accurate rifles I own.
I have a Savage 12 LRPV in .223. I can shoot 2" groups at a quarter mile consistently with the right ammo. At 300 yards the groups are about an inch. It shoots as well as any rifle I've ever picked up and that includes some Remingtons. It has the target AccuTrigger which is a step up from the regular AccuTrigger. It also has a right bolt, left feed system that I really like.
According to the guys on the Savage board this is the best rifle Savage makes. They make target rifles with longer barrels (30" compared to 26") but according to a lot of people that extra barrel length makes the guns front end heavy which makes them harder to keep on target. I just know that I barely have to do anything except point it at what I want to shoot and pull the trigger. BTW that trigger can be adjusted down to 6 oz.. That's pretty darned low but the truth is it doesn't work right below about 12 oz.. The sear block will engage when you close the bolt if you set it lower than that. I hear about various methods to get it to work at lower settings but 12 oz. is plenty low enough for me.
The truth is it's possible to shoot a .223 accurately out to 1000 yards if you get the right conditions. I've seen some great targets posted from various shoots around the country where people were shooting .223's out to 1000 yards. I saw where a teenager shot a winning group at Camp Perry for the youth division using a .223 Savage and shooting 1000 yards. I lost track of that link or I'd post it here.
When I go to the range guys are always swapping guns to see how they like the other guns. I've done that a lot and I've yet to fire a Remington that I like as well as my Savage. But then again most of the Remingtons I've shot were hunting rifles and not varmint rifles. The 700 is a fine rifle but from what I understand it takes an upgrade or two to get it to shoot it's best. The Savage comes out of the box shooting extremely well. It should considering the price though. I paid $900 for mine used. New prices are right about $1200. I got lucky and bought one that someone gave up on before he even shot it enough to break it in. I don't believe in a long break in process but there are always a few spots in the bore that need to be knocked down to get a rifle to shoot it's best. The rifle I bought obviously had not been shot over 10 times. According to the LGS owner the guy owned a bunch of rifles and for some reason he thought the Savage wouldn't shoot as well as it should. He should have shot it more is all I can say because the thing is crazy accurate. 100 yard groups are under .5" and probably it would do better with a really good shooter pulling the trigger. I'm using a Simmons scope to get that kind of results too. Every time I save my money to buy a better scope I end up with a new gun instead. Funny how that works. Well sometimes I buy ammo.
The Howa, Tikka and Sako rifles are certainly great shooters too and so is the Remington if you get a good one. Watch out for recently produced rifles having problems though. Remington is going through some bad times. But for the money I don't think you can beat this Savage. Sako makes great rifles but they are really expensive, much more than the Savage is.
For what you described as your intended use I really think you can do very well with a Savage. They make other great rifles too but like I said, the guys on the Savage board say the LRPV is the best rifle they make. It also comes in .308 if you're interested. I have a Savage 110 in 30.06 too. It shoots pretty well too but it's not like the 12.
Youd be well served by the rem 700 IMO. its a hard rifle to beat. Only rifle that comes close to it is the Savage 10/110 line.
Id opt for a shorter barreled version. the .223 cartridge doesnt need 26" of tube, its optimal from a 20. Id look into a rem 700 XCR or a Savage 10 Precision Carbine. The savage is chaper and comes in an Accustock with an Accutrigger. Only other thing to consider is a good piece of glass. My preference for hunting purposes is the Nikon buckmaster 4.5-14 with BDC. For a strictly target scope go with as much magnification as you can afford in a quality piece of glass. A millett BK81004 would be an excellent choice. But its a HUGE scope.
the .223 doesnt need the extra length. When loaded with suited powders and safe powder charges all the powder is burned up by the time the bullet is at 20" the extra 6 can actually have an adverse effect on velocity with small rifle cartridges. For the .223 and other similar capacity cartridges 20" would be an optimal barrel length.
Besides a 20" rifle is a lighter rifle anyway, so its a win-win IMO.
The USMC is actually developing, or has already developed a 20" version of thier M40A5 sniper weapon system. 2 reasons, the .308 also does not really benefit from the longer barrel, it too is better suited in a shorter 20-22" barrel as apposed to the 25" barrel of the M40A5. And 5 less inches of a bull tube is a good pound of weight less in a world where ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain.
The only rifle cartridges that really benefit form barrels longer than 24" are the big heavy magnums. As a general rule, the more powder the cartridge holds, the more barrel it needs to burn it.
I have a Weatherby Vanguard rifle in .223 with a 24 inch barrel. I have not shot it at 300 yards yet. I am in the process of working on ladder tests to find out what it likes to eat. The twist rate is 1/14 so I am using bullets less than 55 grains. The rifle was in the $400 range and so far I am pretty happy with it.
I have a Weatherby Vanguard rifle in .223 with a 24 inch barrel. I have not shot it at 300 yards yet. I am in the process of working on ladder tests to find out what it likes to eat. The twist rate is 1/14 so I am using bullets less than 55 grains. The rifle was in the $400 range and so far I am pretty happy with it.
Nice GM, I've heard good things about Weatherby Vanguard's and had one
(used) in my hands a few weeks ago at a gun shop.
First glance and a good look-over, I wanted it bad! What stopped me was,
that it was chambered in the 7mm MAG. I already have one in Savage, but
after a night of thought and thinking how well the rifle felt, I eneded up
calling back the next day and it was GONE! (been kicking myself about that)
Wished I would have gone ahead and gotten it, as it was right around $400.
I have 2 700 varmints, .308 and .22-250. Both are 1-holers at 100 with handloads. For anyone considering a .22 centerfire, I definitely recommend the .22-250. I wouldn't have bought a 2nd 700 if the 1st one wasn't good. And I like the way that long 26" heavy barrel balances out. To each their own tho, I understand that.
Forgot to mention that new out of the box, the .308 would shoot 1/2" and less groups with Rem. factory ammo (Win. 150g would only do 3/4"). The .22-250 was bought used and I've never tried any factory stuff, but nothing I've tried so far has been greater than 3/4".
Youd be well served by the rem 700 IMO. its a hard rifle to beat. Only rifle that comes close to it is the Savage 10/110 line.
Id opt for a shorter barreled version. the .223 cartridge doesnt need 26" of tube, its optimal from a 20. Id look into a rem 700 XCR or a Savage 10 Precision Carbine. The savage is chaper and comes in an Accustock with an Accutrigger. Only other thing to consider is a good piece of glass.
Sorry but there are other things to consider. The 12 LRPV comes with a much better stock and if you get the right one it comes with a much better trigger. The TARGET AccuTrigger is head and shoulders better than the standard AccuTrigger. And maybe you can get the same accuracy with a 20" barrel but not according to the people on the Savage board and not according to what I've seen. I've shot quite a few 700's and I've never seen one that came close to the accuracy I'm getting. But mostly I've shot hunting rifles and not varmint rifles like the 12 I have. My hunting rifle doesn't shoot as well either.
You can tell the Target AccuTrigger by the red center blade on the trigger. Actually the entire action is different. The most obvious difference is the amount of trigger pull. The regular AccuTrigger will adjust down to about 1.5-2 lbs. while the target AT will adjust down to 6 oz.. That's how they come from the factory. There are fixes for the regular AT but it still won't shoot as well as the target version because there are several improvements in addition to just the trigger. You can actually buy the target action and trigger (around $550 just for the action and trigger) and build the rifle you want around it. But the 12 LRPV comes with a H-S Precision stock which is far superior to the AccuStock. People actually report a lot of problems with the AccuStock because it is very finicky about how you adjust the action screws. There's a complicated process that must be followed and people claim that even if you follow it to the letter you can still end up with problems. So every time you clean the action you will need to go through this process of adjusting the action screws to the right amount of torque in the right sequence and then you just have to hope it works right. Apparently there is a certain amount of play that gets built into the AccuStock and it can affect accuracy. IMO it's much better to go ahead and get the H-S Precision stock or possibly the McMillan stock which is also available on certain rifles. But those rifles generally cost a lot more than the ones with the H-S stocks.
As for the barrel length all I can say is I would have to try it myself before I would make a blanket statement that 20" is enough. There's more to a barrel than just burning up all the powder. There's the amount of spin you manage to get and the length of the barrel plays into that. Plus you can get better harmonics from a longer barrel. There are several reason why a longer barrel can make a difference.
I don't hate 700's BTW. I nearly bought a Sendero, which is the closest 700 to what I have, but the barrel was shot out and the guy wanted top dollar for the rifle even though it would need a new barrel right off. But I'm glad I waited now. I shoot 2" chalk targets at a quarter of a mile with the Savage. I can usually hit 6 or 7 in a row before I miss. They make a nice cloud of dust when you hit them which is why I like them.
I'm a big fan of the Remingtons and own a few myself, but if I was going
to buy new on the .223 Rem., I'd be looking towards the Savage in .223 rem.
with the varnmiter series.
I have a few of the Savages in different calibers and have the 12 in .223 rem.,
and it's "one" of the most accurate rifles I own.
Again we're on the same page Zane. I like Remingtons but I wonder about their quality in recent years. And it usually takes some work by a good smith to get the accuracy out of a 700 that it's capable of doing. Savages generally shoot well right out of the box. And my Savages are my best shooters too over my CZ and other rifles. The CZ is close but it costs more so if I was going to buy a varmint gun right now it would be a Savage (again - I bought one already).
It should be mentioned that Savage has won quite a few competitions in F Class and F/TR at 1000 yards with essentially the same rifles they use for varmints except they have a longer barrel and a stock designed for that competition. They have won a bunch of competitions against custom built rifles which is a very, very rare thing to do. They use .308's for 1000 usually but some do shoot .223 at 1000 yards. I've not seen adults with with .223 but I've seen youths win at 1000 yards using a .223 Savage. That's mighty impressive IMO and it's the main reason I bought a Savage varmint rifle. That and the Savage rimfires I own are very accurate. I haven't been the least bit disappointed in my Savage varmint rifle. Shooting 300 yards with it seems really easy in fact. If you know how to shoot you won't have any trouble shooting well at that distance with a Savage varmint rifle in .223.
Common now, kangaroo mice are to cute to spread 1/4 mile.
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