Looking to buy a 45 handgun

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by scubadiver12165, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. CJ_56

    CJ_56 New Member

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    I don't believe there are better choices than the Sigs and Glocks to be honest. There are other equal quality guns or close to it. But a Sig is a very high quality handgun and I chose one over a 1911 and don't regret it for a second. Glocks can also be very good weapons. There are many good weapons. But he asked about Sigs and Glocks. And it isn't like this is the only example of such things happening. It always happens even when there are no hairs to split to make wiggle room to chime in with your own favorite choice. I could go on and on about grammar and how a paragraph has a specific and limited thought involved especially when it is spelled out as such. Mainly I don't think adding a lot of confusion to the answer is doing the OP a favor. In fact I think he chose two very good examples of handguns that are both very popular for different reasons and he was asking about whether there was a difference. Just answering the question asked is not such a bad idea IMO.

    It isn't the end of the world or anything or even important. But I do think people should try to limit their answers to the questions asked. It helps to avoid the avalanche of information we see every time a newbie comes along and asks about guns. Too much information is as bad as not enough. And I think someone gave him pretty good advice on a couple of guns that would work very well for him. I don't think he needed the whole history of the gun as an answer. In fact I think it overwhelms people. That was and is my point. If I told you someone said I should buy either a Porsche or a Chevy Blazer would you feel compelled to tell me about the Model A? Because let's face it, the 1911 is essentially the Model A of handguns. That doesn't make it bad. In fact I think we all know they have great qualities. So did the Model A. I'm just saying we might want to limit our comments to the discussion at hand and all hair splitting aside I can dig out my grammar books and prove that his question was technically about only Sigs and Glocks. Paragraphs are limited to a particular subject just like sentences are. But gee whiz do we have to get into all that? I hope not. It was pretty obvious he wanted to know about Sigs and Glocks. Not Model A's.

    It really isn't worth all this much fuss at any rate. I certainly ain't the paragraph police. I was just suggesting we try to stick to the subject rather than turning every single thread into a 1911 love fest. There are other guns in the world and many of them are very nice. For example when was the last time you saw a 1911 with a 13 round capacity like the Glock 21? What about the more modern safeties on Glocks? Some 1911's aren't California approved BTW. Maybe that's why his friend simplified his search to Glocks and Sigs. Aren't we assuming a lot when we assume the OP needs information not asked for?
  2. CJ_56

    CJ_56 New Member

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    I somehow missed this post when I posted above. Sorry but I disagree that a Glock can compete with 1911's and with most Sigs in fact. I don't think most people believe they are as accurate as some other guns because they are built to be functional in all conditions. That means tolerances that aren't as tight as they could be and that means less accuracy. Show me a Glock that will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards and I'll believe you. If you're asking if Sigs will do this some were designed to do just that.

    From the Truth About Guns web page:

    The P210 is renowned for its accuracy. The design specs calls for every P210 to be capable of putting five rounds into a 2 inch circle at 50 yards before leaving the factory. As with some of SIGs higher end pistols, a test fire target is included in the box.

    AFAIK no such claims were ever made about Glocks. And yes Sigs can shoot this well. The new Sig P210 Legend is supposed to do a 1" group at 50 yards before leaving the factory. My P220 will do 2"-3" at 50 yards from a rest if I practice up a good bit before I try it. I've shot 2" groups with it from that distance. It won't do it every time but then I'm not the best shooter in the world either.

    Don't get me wrong. I like Glocks. I started to buy one once. I had it in my head that I was going to buy one and I had the money in my pocket. But I couldn't find one that fit my hand well so I ended up with something else. I also came very close to buying a 1911 once. I tried to hand the money to the guy who had it and I was paying more than it was worth but he wouldn't sell.

    Now I really hope we don't have to hash out every single point. I think you'll find it's common for people to believe Glocks are not as accurate as Sigs.
  3. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    How about a CZ? Or an XDM? I cant stand a glock....;) I would go with a 1911...
  4. CJ_56

    CJ_56 New Member

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    Well I've got an XDm in .40 and I started to buy a CZ just recently but ended up buying a Ruger instead. I still want the CZ so likely as not it will be on the Christmas list or whatever (if I can wait that long ;)). I talked my friend into buying a CZ and he carries it everywhere he goes and can't stop talking about how great it is. And he's right. I have to remind him that I was the one that sold him on the idea in the first place every time I see him because he goes on and on about that thing and I know he has at least 20 pistols.

    I have been carrying the XDm mostly as a truck gun. I often carry a Taurus too. Now that's a great gun and it's a .45.

    There's a bunch of nice stuff around. Heck I could be carrying my .44 magnum S&W 629 but I figure shooting one person at a time is plenty. :D I mostly carry that one for close encounters of the bear kind.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  5. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    Here's a quote from the article you posted the link to:
    One of them asked me, “How about a P210?” I couldn’t believe that they had one. The P210 is an almost mythical gun – you hear about it, but you rarely see it. It’s manufactured in very small quantities and you have to look long and hard to find someone who has it in stock. A few months ago while contemplating the purchase of a highly accurate gun for IDPA that could make up for some of my shortcomings . . .
    I had considered the P210, but when I asked about its availability, the pro shop guys kind of laughed and said good luck finding one.


    So, the gun you want to prop up against the glock isn't actually a true production model at all. Seems a bit disingenuous. You also stated that the Glock should fire a 1 inch group, while the Sig was 5 rounds in a 2 inch group. Um, is it two or one? ;)

    I believe the glock is capable of it for the 2 inch, if we're going to be fair against the Sig. But, I don't think the Sig 210 is a fair candidate. It's a small run production model, and rare.

    So, perhaps a fair comparison would be a long slide 9mm Glock against an equal length Sig 9mm, eh? Or, a .45 against the 220?

    Seeing how the P210 also has a hefty $2200 price tag, not in the same class as a Glock either. For that price, it better put 5 rounds in a 2 inch group, OR BETTER. Sheeesh.

    Truly an apples and oranges comparison.

    Perhaps a test at 50 feet would be sufficient. It would be for me anyway.

    How do you like the P220? I've always wanted a Sig, but the $1,000 price tag always chases me away. :)
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  6. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    It is not fair throwing in a ringer like a Sig P210 but there are other Sigs that are as accurate and probably more accurate than almost any Glock. The one of note is the P220 in 45ACP.

    Sigs, if you have not inspected one, are beautifully made, and are accurate as well. They are all metal (or at least the ones I would recommend are). They will out last any plastic gun. Maybe you don't care if the gun will last decades or even many decades. If that is the case go with any old plastic throw away gun...it matters not which one. But if you want a quality gun, made to last, made to shoot accurately then go with a Sig, new or used. Sig themselves offer used ones turned in from police forces all over the USA. Most often those guns are carried a lot and fired little so would probably be in great shape.

    Another all metal gun that you really should be considering is the CZ 97B in 45ACP. It is a large gun but excellent. There is also a clone of it from EAA (Witness) that in my case shoots right along with the Sig 97B but with the Witness there is more variability from gun to gun. Some of us won and other, not so much. The CZ 97B is every bit as nicely made and as accurate as the SIG P220, in my opinion.

    If you did not get that I do not like plastic guns, I'll say it now...I DO NOT LIKE PLASTIC GUNS! That's a choice of MINE. I have an early P220 (marked Browning, who imported them at the time), the CZ 97B, the Witness, a Colt 1911 (actually in 10mm but close enough), and a Rock Island 1911 that has all match internal parts I installed...All in 45ACP (except the Colt Delta Elite). I have NO plastic guns. All the above pistols are excellent and I would recommend any one of them. But I have a special place in my heart for my Sig P220.

    LDBennett
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  7. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    LD, aren't you a fellow fan of Kel-tec though?
  8. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    NO!!!!!

    LDBennett
  9. CJ_56

    CJ_56 New Member

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    You may want to check out the P210 Legend. And that article is full of bull. They were not a small run. They made as many as they could make and sell. They made them up until the late 1980's. They weren't expensive either. Now the Legend is very expensive. But the original P210 was just not that popular among many shooters who didn't really like 9mm handguns at the time. It was before the modern 9mm cartridges became available. But just for the record there were 350,000 of the original P210's made. That's hardly a small run. Keep in mind that the 210 is back in production with an upgrade or two but the new guns are a limited production unlike the original. I don't know how many they will make but again, the original was NOT a limited production pistol.

    And the 210 is just one example of what a Sig can do. The article pointed out that the P220 was the direct descendant of the 210 and I plainly said my 220 can do 2" groups at 50 yards but certainly not every time. It does shoot very accurate though and I doubt you will find any Glock that will match it's accuracy.

    You can prop up Glocks all day. There's no way they are as accurate as Sigs. It's a well known fact. They weren't designed to be as accurate as Sigs. That doesn't make them bad guns. I clearly said I like them. So I'm not "putting them up" against Sigs. I'm just describing the differences in the guns and the facts as I know them.

    If you doubt my conclusions try the ones on this web page where the 21 is compared to the P220. He rated the accuracy of the Sig much higher but he rated the Glock as a better buy. Makes sense to me but I could shoot my Sig better than he shot his any day of the week. But then he didn't spend any time figuring out the best load or practicing from what I could tell. That's not much of a way to run a test IMO but that's pretty much how they all go. For a better test of accuracy he should have fired from a rest instead of off-hand but he didn't. Just for the record the Sig managed a 3.5" group at 25 yards while the Glock couldn't do better than 8". Both were fired off-hand.

    There are plenty of other places on the net that agree with what I said about the Sig being more accurate. I suggest you use Google if you want to read them yourself.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
  10. 44 Special

    44 Special New Member

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    You didn't mention price in your post ,however,I see you are already looking at Glocks. Also,beside home defense,and target,will it be used for concealed carry ?

    As mentioned already,you will get a ton of advise of which is the best.45 auto.Someone already posted about feel,& fit.This is very important .As already suggested,I would go to a shooting range where you can rent,and shoot several makes,and models.From there,I think you'll see from you target grouping,which is best for you !

    I own 1911's,Sigs,Glocks,and several others .I practice with my 1911's,but find myself carrying my Glocks. The thing I like most about a Glock,or Sig,is right out of the box,with no modifications,they are ready to go.This is not always the case with a 1911 in the same price range.

    If price is not a barrier,and you like the 1911 profile,then Kimber Springfield Armory,Para Ordnance are a good choice.Wilson Combat,Les Baer,and a few other custom 1911's will also serve you well right out of the box ,if you're willing to spend over $2000,or more.

    E.A.A,along with Ruger also makes some affordable,and reliable .45 autos.Take your time,shop,and shoot !
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