Luger Info?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by pahtooco, Oct 30, 2010.

  1. pahtooco

    pahtooco New Member

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    I checked again and find no "crown m" on my clip - just as an FYI. All the numbering either says 86 or (on the front) 2086. Clip (on the bottom) says 4439 with kind of a space between the two fours. I am assuming that means the clip is not original?

    Also this would be a 9MM.

    And - couple of questions: (1) the grip has a place that appears like you can slide something into it (how is that for a "noob" way to put a question). I have not seen this grooved slot often - is that a connector for a stock of some sort?

    (2) I don't see a thread for "gunsmith recommendations" or anything. Is there one that I am missing? Not sure that I would do anything with the Luger at this point - but am thinking about getting my grandfather's WWI Colt cleaned up and if I do would like it done "right"...not to sell but would be nice to have everything in "order" so to speak.

    Thanks again to everyone - learning a lot!

    Chris
  2. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Here is the pic of my 06. I do not see any sharp edges, do you?
    The c/m is right above the mag number.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  3. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Why do I scrutinize the guns folks submit here? First because by showing them to us they are asking for information and value - that is the title of this forum. Why should I give out an inflated value? Will that make the owner feel better? Maybe, until he tries to sell the gun and finds out the hard way what it is really worth.

    I have seen too many innocent people pay inflated prices for what someone has told them is a "collectible" or an "investment" gun to not simply tell the truth as I see it. Can I be wrong? Of course; I am neither a politician or a TV pundit - I don't claim to be perfect. To my embarrassment and chagrin, I have blown a few calls, but have always attempted to apologize and correct my errors in as timely a manner as possible.

    Your comparison to an original .45 Luger is a good one. If someone pictures one and says he is about to buy it for many thousands of dollars, and is it real, you bet I will check it out as well as I can. I will not tell him to buy it just because I want him to like me or because it might make him feel bad to be told the gun is a fake. (Yes, some people have resented being told they were about to buy fakes; one might think they would be glad not to be taken, but their pride was hurt.)

    Jim
  4. 45Auto

    45Auto Active Member

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    SSMN:

    As requested, here are some images of a Krigsmarine marked mag w/o the concentric rings:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  5. pahtooco

    pahtooco New Member

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    I have seen a couple of references here to my pistol being a "1908 navy" and also being "commercial" - I am confused about the difference - or if there is one. Just one was military issue and one was not?

    Also - and maybe I am being just dense here - but what are these concentric rings? Like I mentioned above I don't see the crown m on my mag...

    And...so originally would mine have looked like the pictures Danny posted?
  6. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    45Auto:
    You are correct - your mag is a Navy mag for a 1916-1917 dated navy lugers.
    The mag bottoms for 1906, 1908 models and some 1916-1917 dated models had concentric circles on the sides of the wood bottoms.
    Pahtooko:
    You gun is NOT a "commercial" navy.
    It is a "military 1908 Navy Model" as evidenced by the Crown/m proofs, which are Imperial german navy proof marks, NOT "commercial" proofmarks.
  7. pahtooco

    pahtooco New Member

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    Popped it open and I am curious - what do these markings mean? This is looking straight down - trigger would be right underneath.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2010
  8. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    various assembler's marks...
  9. Danny

    Danny Member

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    David
    All artillery Lugers did not have a 8 inch barrel! Thousands of them had a 7&7/8 inch barrel , like mine has.
    Also the barrel was not cut or milled anywhere to accept the rear(tangent site) assembly. A sleeve was pressed down on the barrel and then soldered. The sleeve was made to put all the site parts on, period, Check around if U do not trust me.
    Buy the way, where do you live?
    Danny
  10. SSMN

    SSMN Member

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    Danny,
    Regarding Artillery barrel lengths, I only know what I read in the Luger books. Every reference book which I have access to lists them at 8". Perhaps a measuring error on your part? Or perhaps you have other references in writing specifying the 7 7/8" barrel length. I'm always willing to learn.

    In regards to the Artillery sight base, I badly....very badly want to say to you "I am wrong and you are right". Easy words for me to say and I am often wrong. But in this case I need more information. Perhaps an artillery barrel with soldered base removed?

    I am attaching a photo of a rear sight which in my opinion shows the sight base/barrel band to be machined as an integral part of the barrel. If this base/band is soldered on, then the piece had to be made to slide up and over the barrel flange where it fits snugly to the frame? I really don't think so but I await proof of that. Don't forget, I am eager to say to you "You are right and I am wrong".

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  11. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I am a bit confused by the talk about "commercial" vs "military" Navy Lugers, and it sounds like the military ones are the more desireable. But my understanding is that some 100k Navy Lugers were made, in several variations, while only 1000-1500 commercial "navies" were made (not counting surplus guns sold on the commercial market).

    It would seem to me that the latter would be far less common and more valuable than the military guns, even given the "historical" association of Naval issue, or is there something I don't know?

    Also, the books say, and the dozen or so artillery Lugers I have examined bear out, that the rear sight base is part of the barrel. Proper barrel alignment was ensured by use of a gauge, not by installing, marking, and then removing, machining and reinstalling as some folks believe. For comparison, the Mauser 98 rifle barrel was installed and headspaced, then the gun was set up referenced on the receiver flat and the sights installed.

    Jim
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  12. 85ponyboy

    85ponyboy New Member

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    I am looking for a 4439 original clip for a 1939 luger as I do not have the original clip. I know this was post over 2 years ago but thought I would try. You can contact me at my email address of toddbriceray@yahoo.com
  13. Lanrezac

    Lanrezac Active Member

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    SSMN, the Germans were on the metric system. If the barrel was supposed to be 200 millimeters long, at 25.4mm per inch, that works out to 7.874 inches...which is almost perfectly 7 7/8 inches. I would guess that most English language references just round it off to 8 inches.

    PS - I did not notice this thread was 2 years old before posting. ponyboy85, this is not really the right place to look for Luger magazines. You might try Ebay as well as the major gun auction websites, since a surprising number of magazines show up there; be prepared to pay over $100.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  14. packetsplace

    packetsplace Member

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    This really is a simple matter. The Luger has been overly buffed and plated. All collector value has been destroyed. It doesnt matter if its a Luger or any other firearm. I would value it at $500.00 tops as a shooter.
  15. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Maybe I should not get into a "discussion" between experts, but there was no sleeve used for the lP.08 rear sight, and no solder. The base was machined as part of the barrel, and the extra thick shoulder left for the rear sight adjustment screw (later dropped). The sight bed (with the "ski-slope" on it, was dovetailed into the sight base, then fixed in place by two screws. one at the front and the other at the back. Both went into the milled flat on the barrel. The leaf was secured by a cross pin, much the same as the setup used on the Mauser rifle.

    If an "lP.08" is seen with a sleeve soldered on, it has been made up by drilling the rear of the barrel out of a junker lP.08 barrel, leaving a sleeve, which was then pressed and soldered into a turned down long barrel. This may seem difficult or unlikely, but I watched a man do it. He also made at least a half dozen "Luger carbines", but AFAIK did not make the carbine stocks.

    Just a note FWIW, the poster who mentioned soldering on the base sleeve might have been thinking of the Mauser rifle, where the sights were installed after the barrel had been installed. But in the Luger the sight base(s) and extractor cut were made during barrel manufacture, based on the gauged reference (witness) mark. One rather silly idea is that Luger barrels were installed, marked, then removed and the front sight base milled and the extractor cut made. Not true.

    Jim
  16. Lanrezac

    Lanrezac Active Member

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    This thread is two years old. The arguing over the original point stopped then. New member 85ponyboy resurrected it in order to ask someone to sell him a "4439" magazine for 1939 Luger. I think the odds of that happening are low, but he should post in the Buy & Sell sub-forum to have any chance at all.
  17. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Sorry, I sometimes forget to look at the date.

    Jim
  18. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    Lots of really interesting things posted here! As to the question about having the plateing removed, I've had it done to an old DMW 1918 Luger about 2 years ago, and all I can add is that it cost me about $200 to have the plateing removed and the pistol re-blued. Good and bad - good was that the plateing was gone and when it was plated it was not polished, so the edges are sharp and all markings perfectly intact. Guess I was lucky because the plateing did not pit the metal. The bad - it is not an original finish, and as such is classified as a 'shooter'. Maybe $500 in value.

    Final thought - these guns are OLD, and parts for them are very pricey. The Luger design is not very safe in my humble opinion, especially if you wish to carry it loaded. The only thing that keeps it from firing is the transfer bar. The safety only 'holds' the transfer bar from flexing and thus releasing the firing pin. I will only load mine when ready to actually fire. Just my two little pennies.
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