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M-1 Garand info?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by OneFatCat, Apr 13, 2011.

  1. OneFatCat

    OneFatCat New Member

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    Im looking at a Springfield M-1 Garand w/scope and US bayonet that shows having a serial # of 2997062 ..do any of you have anything to reference to so I can find out when it was built, by whom and a ballpark value ..thank you.

    OFC

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  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Made by Springfield in 1944. I used to have a site that listed the month, not just the year, but it's gone now. Mine, a 289xxxx gun, was made in June of 44. In January of 44 Springfield was kicking out almost 4000 rifles a day, so a hundred thousand rifles later, I'm gonna guess July or maybe August.
  3. MarkIIInut

    MarkIIInut Former Guest

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    Good to very good condition they're about 500-700. The one I'm looking at getting is still in it's issue case selling for $595

    http://thecmp.org/m1garand.htm
  4. OneFatCat

    OneFatCat New Member

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  5. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, Scott,

    That M1 rifle was made in June 1944; it is in an M1D configuaration and has an M84 scope. (I didn't say it IS an M1D - read further.) Around here, standard M1 rifles generally go for $700-800 in good condition, M1 carbines around $500-600. I would be surprised if you get any bargains at an auction, which is why I generally skip them. Folks get carried away trying to outbid one another and the price goes skyward.

    There were two M1 rifles issued with scopes, the M1C which has a Griffin & Howe sidemount with the M82 scope, which was a modified Lyman Alaskan, and the M1D which has a modified barrel with a scope mount attached and had the M84 scope, purpose-built for the military. A few other scopes were used, like the Kollmorgens used by the Marines, but in general any scopes other than the M82/M84 should arouse suspicion. A few M1C's were used in WWII, but the M1D never was. The primary U.S. sniper rifle of WWII was the M1903A4.

    Also, the barrel for the M1D has a special drawing number - D7312555 - and an M1D with any other barrel number is not original.

    No M1C or M1D rifles were specifically made as sniper rifles; rifles for conversion were chosen more or less at random, so there is no "serial number range" for either rifle.

    Some M1C and M1D rifles were sold through CMP a while back on a lottery schem, so there are some legit ones around, but there are probably a lot more fakes, as both M84 scopes and the special mount block (and repros) were on the market.

    Also, we still need to be careful of the "cut and weld" M1 rifles, made with receivers that had been cut in half and the two parts (from different rifles) welded together to make a whole receiver.

    Any rifle purporting to have come from CMP should have the CMP papers for definite authentication.

    The bayonet is the M1 bayonet made by American Fork and Hoe. it is in poor condition and I am suspicious of it as there appears to be welding on the blade. Some bayonets were "demilled" by chopping them, and then sold as scrap. Entrepreneurs welded on pieces of steel to build the blade back to the proper length. 'Nuff sed.

    Just a general comment. I don't know if both the rifle and bayonet came from the same source, but if so, the bayonet "problem" casts doubt on the rifle. If the seller faked one, he probably faked the other. So be careful.
    Jim
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  6. Buckshot

    Buckshot Active Member

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    While we're on the subject...I've decided to find a Garand to add .30 caliber oomph to my stable of MUW (Mattel Urban Warfare) M-4rgeries. Can anyone give me a short course in things to watch out for. I mean, I can judge the overall condition of a weapon, but is there anything specific to the Garand - besides the "cut and weld" you mentioned - to be aware of? Thanks.
  7. OneFatCat

    OneFatCat New Member

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    Jim how do you tell if the receiver has been cut and welded is that something that you can simply see by just looking at the receiver or do you have to take it appart to tell ..does anyone have any pictures of a receiver that has had this done to it they could post?

    OFC
  8. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    On welded receivers, you can usually tell by looking, but you have to know what you are looking for. Briefly, any discoloration, pitting, or unevenness in the receiver rails on either side, in the bolt lug raceway on the left side or in the op rod raceway on the right. Any break in the lines of the receiver milling or interruption in the circular milling pattern in the raceways is a definite indication that all is not right.

    Another check, but one that requires disassembly of the rifle and also more info, is to compare the maker and serial number on the heel of the receiver with the drawing number on the front. Since those two parts on a "cut and weld" rifle probably won't match, a mismatch is a tipoff. For example, a Springfield Armory M1 rifle with S/N 123456, with a receiver drawing number of D28291-35 would be a clear mismatch, since that S/N was made in December 1940 and the 35 number was not used until mid-1944.

    Some of those "C&W" rifles were well done, and probably safe enough as there is little stress on the middle of an M1 receiver. But there are are other problems, one of which being that the original receivers were scrapped for a reason, usually worn bolt lug seats, worn raceways, or worn sight notches. In theory, those problems could cancel each other if a front half with good lug seats was welded to a rear with good sight notches. Or the result could be a receiver bad at both ends or in the middle.

    Just to clarify one point. Two halves of the same original rifle could NEVER be welded back together even if someone wanted to search a gondola car load of scrap for them. Enough metal was removed in the cutting to keep that from happening. What was done was to take two parts long enough to overlap, cut or grind each to a mating surface, then weld them together.

    Often the guns were refinished with a thick, rough, light gray Parkerizing to cover the tracks, but that it in itself a warning flag as no WWII or Korean war M1s looked like that originally.

    Jim
  9. OneFatCat

    OneFatCat New Member

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    DAYum Jim Ive GOT to meet you buddy ..thank you ...you ARE da MAN!

    Scott
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    If I can get over this cold, I will give you a call on Sunday.

    Jim
  11. OneFatCat

    OneFatCat New Member

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    Look forward to it Jim ...

    Scott
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