m-2 carbine

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms & Related Items' started by bonzy, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm sure. If the receiver is marked "M2" the gun is a machinegun, regardless of the parts. The exact same receiver, marked "M1" is a rifle.
    I know it makes no sense, but BATF rules generally don't make sense.
  2. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Yes this is correct. I was a class 3 dealer for many years and I still own an M2 marked carbine. The receivers on M1 and M2 are identical except for the number stamped on the bridge of the receiver. The trigger housing and several internal parts are different, and there is a selector switch, selector spring, and disconnector lever added to make the carbine fire in full automatic mode.

    Removal of the M2 parts does indeed convert an M2 back to legal semiautomatic status ONLY IF the receiver is marked M1. If the receiver is marked M2, it was originally manufactured as a machine gun and it will always be considered a machine gun by BATF. It's common to find carbines with M2 type trigger housings, sears and hammers, even disconnectors included in the trigger housing, but the selector switch, selector spring, and disconnector lever are ALWAYS missing from any M1 carbine I have ever seen.

    So, if the carbine you are considering purchasing is marked M2 on the receiver, forget about it. It's not worth 10 years in Club Fed. No way to ever make it legal either.
  3. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, 3/2 STA SS and guys,

    If your friend is in the U.S., unless the guy who didn't know what he had transferred the gun on a Form 4 and someone paid the tax, your friend could be looking at ten years in prison if he is caught with that M2. Is it worth it to him?

    As usual from me, a word of caution. It was legal, up to 1986, to make M2 kits for sale to the public on a Form 4. At first, GI parts were used. But when those parts ran out, some makers had repros made, especially of the disconnector lever, which was usually the serial numbered part. While the GI levers were fairly thick, made of good steel, and hardened, the repros are almost always thin and unhardened; many have lasted only a dozen or so rounds of FA fire before either bending or breaking. That meant the kit was ruined and a new lever could be acquired only with another Form 4 and tax. Since 1986, even that route is expensive.

    So if you plan to acquire an M2 kit, or a carbine with full auto parts, make sure someone knowledgeable looks at the parts; otherwise, the expensive kit may turn out to be an expensive dud.

    Jim
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  4. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    Hi JimK

    Yes I know and am familiar withe the Federal rules. I am a former Deputy and he is a retired Deputy. He has a class 3 and I have a class 2. Thanks for the warning. I know you don't want to see anyone get in trouble as your posts are always informative. I love this place!
  5. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, 3/2 STA SS,

    I am confused. If the guy didn't know what the M2 was, had he registered it? If it wasn't registered, not even a Class 3 dealer or a Class 2 manufacturer* can buy it or have it transferred legally. And the deputy status means nothing. A LEO can't own an unregistered MG; if he seizes an unregistered gun, it has to be turned into his department for registration on a Form 10 for offical use, or destroyed. Quite a few LEO's have gotten in big trouble by thinking their commission allowed them to own unregistered machineguns. Not so.

    *A Class 2 SOT (manufacturer of NFA firearms) can MAKE machineguns for sale to law enforcement/military (or "testing" by himself) but he can't ACQUIRE unregistered machineguns unless they have been deactivated per BATFE rules, in which case they are the same as any scrap metal and he can use scrap to make a machinegun. Note that it is not even legal to deactivate or cut up or destroy an unregistered MG. The deactivated receivers on the market were cut up in bonded warehouses after being brought from overseas, so they were never legally in the US.

    Jim
  6. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    Jim,
    Issued through a department you can. I had mine. It depends on the department. I no longer have it because I am out of Law Enforcement.
  7. BDMerc1

    BDMerc1 New Member

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    I realize this thread hasn't been active for a while, but I wanted to ask, is it not the case that "once a machine gun, always a machinegun" not only applies to machine gun receivers, but any gun that gets registered as a machine gun, whether it's in working order or not(?). More broadly put "once a registered NFA item, always a NFA item" (?) since I can't take my suppressor apart and sell the tube as a non-nfa part. What do you have to do to make a NFA item, no longer a NFA item? I've got Sionics suppresors that cost more to sell and transfer than they are worth. What is the process for deactivating them so that the NFA will consider them deactivated? Do I need to get a torch and have an ATF agent witness me cutting them up? Can I send them to ATF for destruction? How do I get something in writing to show that the suppressors are destroyed?

    Also, as for the M2 Carbine discussion which this thread originally was mean't to address, yes, my experience is that there are a number of tranferable M1 conversions that are set up for select fire, some good, some crap. They are not M2 Carbines just because they are set up like a M2, anymore than an AR-15 conversion becomes a M-16 because it's select fire. To be an M2 Carbine, wouldn't it have to be either a M1 overstamp, or Factory stamped as a M2? Plainfield made M2 Carbines, but I don't know much about them.

    The $5k to $6k figure may apply for one of the many M1 Carbine conversions, but there are C&R Transferable Military M2 Carbines that are a good deal more valuable, especially to collectors.

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