1. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

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    looking at mosin m44 , triangle arsenal mark, believe it had 1943 with backward 7, all serial # matched (even on buttplate), in good to very good

    action and barrel look like new no noticeable wear what would be a fair price to pay for this rifle
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  2. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    I don't know much about M44s.....but I've sent out a "Help" message to Polishshooter our resident expert on all things Moison.

    After he's finished his breakfast of kielbasa & saurkraut (and farts a few times)......he should be along shortly. :D
  3. Well Night, the triangle arsenal mark (with an arrow in the center) indicates the rifle was built at the Izhevsk Arsenal. If it is a Mod 44 it will have a permanently attached, extendable spike bayonet on the right side of the barrel that fits into a groove on the stock. The date of manufacture should show on the receiver, and also under the rifle tang, and it should be in ordinary Arabic numbers, 1944, 1945 etc. Polishshooter can tell you more about the other markings. If it is in the condition you say (which is pretty common for these rifles since most of them were arsenally refinished after the war), it could be purchased from one of the dealers like AIM or SOG, by anyone with a C&R FFL, for around $70.00 to $90.00, depending on the dealer and the type of stock. The laminated stocks sell for a bit more than the solid beech ones. Retail price could easily run much higher, up to around $200.00 or so, since the dealers really mark these up big time. In other words, the Mod 44 Mosins are EXCELLENT rifles as shooters, but they are very, very common right now and quite inexpensive to purchase.
  4. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

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    since I have decided not to get C&R I would have to go thru dealer. so by time pay shipping and dealer fees this 120 from a dealer sounds pretty good.
    now talk to me about cleaning after firing corosive ammo. I've read up on it but goes against grain to think of putting soap and water in rifle.guess it works but to me gun, water and rust go together:eek: :(
    that date may have been 1945 after got home couldn't remember
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2006
  5. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

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    I went in looking for mauser because seem to have better choice of ammo
    but he was sold out. had swiss for 170 and think m39 for same. I plan next year to get mauser and swiss rifles (maybe more) but this year I've spent as much as I can afford (glad my wife doesn't like computers[thinks there evil])
    maybe she's right you people are encouraging me down the dark path :D :D
  6. So-called "corrosive" ammo is really not a big problem, Night, and it is likely that is exactly what you will end up shooting in it, at least for practice. The milsurp stuff is readily available and quite cheap. Wolf does load good hunting ammo for the 7.62x54 in their "Gold" line, however, so hollow point stuff is not difficult to get. The Wolf ammo is non-corrosive.

    All you really need to do with corrosively primed ammo is run a couple of patches soaked in a good base (as opposed to acid) substance like ammonia through the bore after you get back from the range. Heck, even Windex works for that, though I generally use ammonia so as to avoid the other chemicals in Windex. That neutralizes the acid quite well. Then, simply clean the rifle as you ordinarily would with Hoppe's #9 or whatever product you commonly use. The only thing you need to be careful about is neutralizing that acid within a few hours after shooting. If you wait too long, you will get some rust in the bore. If you must put off a full cleaning, at least run those base patches through.
  7. Actually, while I love Mausers and own several, the Mosins are really a better buy, dollar for dollar. They are usually cheaper than the Mausers, and for most purposes they perform quite well indeed. The 8mm ammo the Mauser uses does have a better selection of loaded ammo available for it, but shooters in this country are beginning to realize just how good the 7.62x54 round actually is and a greater selection is becomming available. If you handload, you can really get versitility out of both cartridges. The Swiss K-31s (7.5x55) are relatively new on the American market so about the only loaded stuff you can find right now is either milsurp (which is VERY good, non-corrosive ammo, Swiss made, but Berdan primed) or Wolf if you want hunting rounds. If you handload, the 7.5x55 is an excellent cartridge. If you can find boxer primed cases (save any Wolf brass you fire, they are Boxers!). Bullets for the 7.5 are REALLY easy since it is actually a .308, the same as a 30-06 or .308 Winchester.
  8. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

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    Thanks for input greatly appreciated- my hopes are to get a least one firearm from each country involved in WW II - starting a little late and can't put a lot of money into it so it will take time which as the saying goes you got til you die whenever that will be ( only God knows )
  9. Ursus

    Ursus Active Member

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    I salute you, Pistol! That should had been painfull!:)
  10. Verdad es verdad, El Senor Bear, but I still love the Mausers. :D
  11. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Sorry I'm late!

    Are you SURE it's a 1943 M44?

    If it is, GRAB it....:eek: And CALL me....;)

    The M44 was actually ADOPTED and ISSUED in January of 1944, which is why its a "Model 44," BUT they did make some up, about 50,000, after May of 43, for TESTING in late 1943 and they ARE available, but VERY rare...I HAVE seen one that wasn't for sale, I know another collector that has one that he actually bought for a song mixed in with OTHER "cheap" ones when they were a dime a dozen, and SOG lists them occasionally in their "antigue" section for like 3 or 4 bills....

    The ONLY Russian Arsenals that EVER made M44s are Ishvesk, and Tula...and Tula only made about half of the 1943 ones, (MAY have been converted M38s,) and some, VERY FEW, that were actually made at Ishvesk on Tula machinery that was evacuated in 41 when the Nazis were coming....but have the Tula Star marking nonetheless....


    Virtually ALL M44s AFTER 1944 were made at Ishvesk....while the triangle and arrow means Ishvesk, the REAL Ishvesk post-1928 marking is the "hammer and sickle in wreath" that SHOULD be on the barrel above the date...does it have it?

    There are basically two models of Russian M44s...NOT counting the 1943s...(They MAY have some variations, which haven't even been documented, because they had a couple of months to make them, and then test them, so there MIGHT have been changes made to it, which would make variations even MORE rare....)

    From 1943 to about mid 45, all Mosin Nagant's made were "Wartime," that is they did away with a lot of extra machining and polishing. Besides seeing alot of machining marks on the barrel and reciever they didn't polish off, the MAIN thing is the "High Wall." Pre-war, AND post war receivers had a deep "scallop" on the off side of the reciever, but war time receiver walls go almost to the top of the reciever.

    In addition, All wartime STOCKS are a little different too...(many "Rearsenaled" ones after the war were put in Post-war stocks, but...) CORRECT wartime MNs will usually ONLY have an unprotected sling slot in the wood at the rear, and just a little sheet metal reinforcement at the BOTTOM of the front sling slot. POST war stocks have fully lined sheet metal pressed in "escutcheons" in both slots, PRE war stocks have the escutcheons, BUT they are usually held in by TINY screws. All M44s of other nationalitiies made after 1950 have both escutcheons too, EXCEPT some polish ones....


    The last difference is the bayonet...WARTIME bayonets only have ONE "ear" on the bayonet lug, that only locks it when FOLDED, when "fixing" it, you have to pull the handle slightly forward so the ring clears the muzzle and it is held only by the ring, and the swivel screw in the lug.

    POST war M44 bayonets (and all other nationalities made in the 50s...)have TWO lugs that lock it forward and folded, PLUS has a little bevel on the ring, so if you just "fling" it forward, it will swivel forward and lock over the muzzle with no other action needed....kind of like the bayo on an SKS....

    The ONLY other difference is Wartime M44s will have a "narrow base" front sight, and Post-war ones will have a "wide base," which makes it confusing when you try to buy replacement ones....


    As far as AMMO....you will find MUCH more 7.62x54 ammo, both surplus AND commercial, than 8mm mauser. S&B, Igman, Privi Partisan, Wolf Performance, and Winchester, all offer reloadable rounds in many bullet weights and configurations from 150gr to 220 grain.

    And surplus is no issue, and won't be for a long time, since it STILL is the issue sniper and MMG round for not only the Russian, but MOST former Bloc countries.....
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2006
  12. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    And oh yeah, MOST (OK, ALL, but I have one "transition" 91/30 that had it ground off for some reason...) Russian Mosin Magants ALSO have their date of maunfacture stamped UNDERNEATH the tang, near the rear receiver screw hole.

    It USUALLY is only the last two numbers of the date, like "43," or the WHOLE "1943," or sometimes the last THREE digits, like "943."

    That's why you will see some FInnish rifles advertised as "Antiques-No FFL needed!" even though the Finnish date on TOP might be 1940 or whatever....that is because ALL Finnish Mosin Nagants were made from Russian RECEIVERS either from direct captures, or ones bought from OTHER countries who captured them...so while it may say 1939 or whatever on TOP, the TANG date will be pre-1898, which is how it is proved to be an "Antique, not subject to FFL...." like any other weopon made before 1898...
  13. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

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    :eek: sorry its a 1945 I'm going to try to post some pictures

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  14. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

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    the rear sling holder is also metal only find evidence of one screw or nail on one side, bayonet has to be pushed forward to drop over barrel

    I did find source for modern ammo guess didn't look hard enough before
    i'm going to get dies and shell plate for press and get back into reloading after buying a few boxes of brass ammo :D been shooting 9mm and didn't seem to be worth reloading even if you could find brass
    look forward to shooting this rifle have to clean first has oil of somekind in chamber
  15. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    It LOOKS like you have a interesting rifle...1945v is a transition year....while I can't see the receiver enough to see if it's a "high wall" or not, it LOOKS like a post war receiver, BUT it's definitely a WARTIME front sight and bayonet! I've seen 45s both in "Wartime" and "Post war" configs, so they must have gone back to pre-war standards sometime after the Germans surrendered in May....1942 M38s and M91/30s are the same way, EARLY 42s are "pre-war," while LATE 1942s are "Wartime..."

    And the stock looks POST war, but those "pins" holding in the front escutcheons I've never seen before...Wartime will only have a half covered reinforced front hole, and a plain hole in the rear, and POST war have no pins or screws, they are stamped out of one piece of sheetmetal and have little "dogs" that reach into the hole and grab the wood...

    I'm wondering if it IS a Wartime, with PRE-WAR escutcheons added later???

    I'll look at the pics again, if you can post a close up of the off side of the receiver, and the rear sling hole it would help alot!

    BTW, it looks like it's in GREAT shape, PROBABLY rearsenaled, but most of them are...

    The GOOD news is the later the date, the less chance it was fired or cleaned a lot...(for some reason they taught the troops to clean them from the MUZZLE, so there can be damage to the rifling there...)they switched over to the SKS soon after, so a lot of Post-War M44s are in a LOT better shape than the Wartime ones which probably saw a lot of service in War II....
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2006

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