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making short barrel shotgun

13K views 38 replies 17 participants last post by  Bill DeShivs 
#1 ·
my vision is going quickly and i would like to make a side by side 12 about 8 inches long . i was told a long time ago but it is gone now. if it involves 200.00 bucks and papers that is not bad but i could use a little help thanks jeff
 
#2 ·
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#3 · (Edited)
Yeah, that's basically it. Paperwork and 200 dollars. Just make sure that you have the paper back from ATF BEFORE you cut the gun.

Two thoughts. 8 inches seems kinda short. Mine's eleven. Eight would be shorter than the forearm.


Notice mine has hammers. Hammerless guns depend on the opening of the barrels to cock the strikers. Longer barrel equals more leverage equals easier cocking. Shorter barrel equals harder to cock. Hammered guns, on the other hand, just open. No fuss. That's why I picked a hammered one to cut.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
First, if one are not already a NFA taxpayer, I do not recommend one becoming one. You get you name on a list (or another list) of persons to be watched very closely. But, each to his/her own opinion relative to such.

Second, I agree with Alpo relative to barrel length and hammers.

Third, very short tubes do little to make shot spread; and shotgun shot or buckshot spreads a lot less than commonly believed at indoor distances that are commonly encountered. Do some tests of your own with a cylinder bore gun.

Forth, several newer (post 1960 design) SxS shotguns do not have their tubes soldered or brazed to a center rib. The tubes are joined together at the breech and muzzle. The center rib is just cosmetic. Thus, you cannot simply cut the barrels to make them shorter. They will have to be rejoined at the muzzle, which is usually a gunsmith job.
 
#5 ·
Don't worry about getting on a "list". I would bet we're ALL already on some kind of "list".

If you want a short barrel shotgun, go for it. Find a gun you like that's not too expensive. File the Form 1 and wait 6-8 months for BATFE to approve it and get the form and stamp back to you, and only THEN have the barrel cut.

Be aware you can't transport the gun across state lines without prior written BATF approval, and you can't give the gun to anyone else to have in their possession unles you're there with the gun.
 
#6 ·
Yeah, that's basically it. Paperwork and 200 dollars. Just make sure that you have the paper back from ATF BEFORE you cut the gun.

Two thoughts. 8 inches seems kinda short. Mine's eleven. Eight would be shorter than the forearm.


Notice mine has hammers. Hammerless guns depend on the opening of the barrels to cock the strikers. Longer barrel equals more leverage equals easier cocking. Shorter barrel equals harder to cock. Hammered guns, on the other hand, just open. No fuss. That's why I picked a hammered one to cut.
THAT IS AWESOME....
 
#8 ·
Actually depends on the ammo.

The shells in the belt are Challenger target loads. That's a Canadian brand. 1 ounces of 9s, in those blue shells (7 1/2s are red. I think it's nice that they color-code their ammo). They feel like a 12 gauge going off. Only other stuff I've fired in it is S&B 00 buck. It's quite comfortable.

I believe, though I have no way of proving it, that the Challengers are loaded with a fast powder, and it all burns in the eleven inch of barrel, and therefore gives me full recoil, while the S&Bs are loaded with a slower powder, to take advantage of the 20 to 30 inches of a hunting gun, and since not all of it is burned in eleven inches, the recoil is less. I have fired both brands in full-size guns, and the S&B has a respectable recoil.

I have shot aimed shots with it. Not difficult, but does take some thought and practice, otherwise you have a tendency to hit yourself in the face with it. I've shot it from the hip. Extremely hard to hit anything that way. I believe it's because of this. When you shoot a regular shotgun from the hip, you have the stock pressed against your side and that allows you to use your body to aim with. When shooting this thing from the hip, you don't have that, and you tend to shoot waaaaay to the left.



I've also shot it one-handed, like a big pistol. Not too bad, although the back of the trigger guard does tend to put a bruise on my bird-finger, if I do it more than two or three times.

All in all, this has no practical use, but it is fun.
 
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#10 ·
Not really. As I said, aimed fire takes a little time and thinking. You can't just "up and shoot". You get hit in the face. And with a hip shot, at a measured 15 feet (living room distance) I would miss with most of the load.

It's a toy. If you've got the money to spend, it's a fun toy. But it's still a toy.

Now, that same eleven-inch barrels, with a full buttstock on it? That might be a good self-defense gun. Don't know. I cut the butt before I ever fired it.

I do know this. I ever shoot anyone with it, and it's gonna be locked up in the evidence room for forty forevers, and every cop in six counties is gonna come fingerbang it because it's cool, and when I finally do get it back it's gonna be covered with rusty fingerprints.
 
#11 ·
when the cops get there after you have to defend yourself and shoot an intruder with a shotgun, just make sure you give them the old full length side by side pawn shop special in the corner that could be used for self defense. heck.. evern fire and practice a shot thru it once a month to keep it fresh.. :)
 
#12 ·
or just scratch the mad max boomsticks idea, albeit really freaken cool, and get a coach gun. they are just as fun, bear no extra taxes and paperwork and 3 times more useful in the confines of your home. ;)
 
#14 ·
i got a new camo rem 870 super express mag, got the paper tax back and cut it to 14 inches with the option on the discription addinum to make a 12 inch. i dont allow it to digest birdshot. at first i bought 00 buck, 000 buck and slugs in all sizes. ive since bought some no 1 and no 4 buck. a 3 inch no 4 has 42 22 cal pellets. also optioned a pistol grip or the stock. i have never fired a 3.5 inch shell. im skeered. i did give it to my stepson with 2 3.5 inch turkey loads with 2.25 ounces of no 5.(ok some birdshot but its not your regular birdshot) and it had the pistol grip at the time. i laugheddddddddddddddd.
 
#15 ·
Friend of mine bought a Witness Protection. That's an 870 cut at the front of the magazine and just behind the pistol grip.



The day it came in, we go back to the range to "play". Underneath the register was the "odd lots of assorted ammo" (someone traded in a gun and it came with a partial box of ammo, or someone rented a big kicker, like a 454 or a 50AE, fired 2 or 3 rounds and decided that was enough, and gave us the rest of the box - like that) and there was a box of "assorted 12 gauge". That's what we were using.

He taught me, that day, the correct technique for doing aimed shots with a stockless gun. And we also shot it one-handed.

Then he pulls this one shell out of the box. 3" magnum 2 ounces of #2s, DUCK LOAD. He says, "Hey, cool. Watch this."

Now, bein' a southern boy, I knew that meant, "Get the hell out the way". And I started backing up.

He stood there like a duelist, 90 degrees to the target, left arm fully extended (he's left handed) and touched 'er off.

That gun come up and smacked him in the middle of the forehead, busted the skin and he started bleeding like a stuck hog. The gun come a'loose of his hand and come flyin' across the room at me, twirllin' like a boomerang. I jumped out of the way and it landed on the carpet and bounced a couple of times. And he just stood there bleeding. I went up front and said, "We got a first aid kit in this store? Bob done busted his head." Ken, who was manning the counter whilst we was playing, went out and get his personal kit out of his car.

Lesson learned? Powerful loads in lightweight guns require STRONG grip.
 
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#16 ·
Back in the 70's I bought a Mossberg shorty with the pistol grip, and the butt stock. I promptly bought another shorty barrel, and cut it back to the magazine tube. I can tell you right now that 6" of barrel across a 20' room don't make any difference, to speak of, at all. The short barrel wound up at the bottom of the lake. If you just have to have one for the "cool" factor, then by all means get one. The 18" barrel works better, though it is longer. There are methods for clearing a room with a shotgun, or a rifle. This is where some training comes in handy! You do not want the barrel of your gun to proceed you around a corner, pistol, rifle, or shotgun!
 
#17 ·
Don't take on the government head on by yourself. Obey the law. You will lose and made an example of which makes the rest of us look bad. At a time when critical elections are coming, we don't need this. A sawed off isn't effective against SWAT. Use it for protection and you will be screwed when there is a myriad of other ways for protection. Liberal lawyers like this kind of boogers!
 
#18 ·
There is nothing illegal about building a short barreled shotgun, Drymag. You just have to follow the rules.
I agree there is little to be gained by using one for defense (over an 18 inch plus length barrel.)
They are extremely cool toys, though. I'm building one myself.
 
#19 ·
I have, once upon a time, had the opportunity to shoot a 20 gauge pistol with a six inch barrel.

It would not penetrate ONE side of a tin can from five feet away.

Cool looking, sure, but completely worthless as a weapon; my Wrist Rocket sling shot has more power.

Just another stupid, stupid law which makes the anti-gunners happy thinking they have done something.
 
#22 · (Edited)
always, always, always count your shots.

i have an SBS with a 14 inch bbl.

i think it spreads pretty well. i just found #4 buck in 3 inch. there are 40 something 22 cal pellets. ill have to test short range but 25 ft or so you could hit 2 guys standing together or cover one.
OK, y0u hit em, now what kind of damage did you do? Are they down, and out of the fight? #4 Buck form a 14" barrel is not my choice for a SD load. I'm no expert, but I would think that 3"- 4" of penetration would be all you could get out of that load from a 14" barrel. I might be wrong about this, but I don't think so. I found an article on #4 Buck shot for HD, http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu91.htm You folks that do use it, or might want to should read this. And there are only 27 pellets in a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell.
 
#24 ·
Cops use 14" barreled shotguns all the time. They work pretty well.
The Ithaca Auto & Burglar gun is a double barreled 20 ga. pistol that was made in the 1920s and 1930s as a self defense/police/bank guard gun. They work pretty well with 10" or 12" barrels.
 
#25 ·
Seems to me it is probably legal to make a pistol 'shotgun'. The Taurus Judge fires .410 shotgun shells. I think you'd have to make it from a brand new receiver though - one that has never been a long gun.
 
#26 · (Edited)
The Taurus Judge is legal because it has a rifled barrel, "supposedly" is chambered in 45 Colt, and just "happens" to have a cylinder long enough to accept a 410 shotshell.

There is no other shotshell that has a "fixed cartridge" the same size. So 28 gauge, 24 gauge, 20 gauge, 8 gauge, whatever, you can' t claim the pistol is chambered in "that pistol round" and just happens to also take a shotshell.



edit: oops. typo
 
#27 ·
I can take a Rossi 92 action that has never had a buttstock on it, and legally make a pistol out of it, with a ten-inch barrel. It will look EXACTLY like I took a Rossi 92 RIFLE and cut it down. EXACTLY. The difference is the one is a pistol, legal anywhere a pistol is legal, while the other is a Short Barreled Rifle, is illegal in some states, and where it is legal it still requires Federal registration and a tax stamp.

But you can't do that with a smoothbore. The law makes no provision for a smoothbore, EXCEPT as a shotgun. And shotguns have to have a barrel longer than 18 inches. Period. Does not matter whether it ever had a stock or not. It's a shotgun. If you want it to have a barrel shorter than 18 inches, you must paper it - either as a Short Barreled Shotgun or as an Any Other Weapon.

But you cannot have a smoothbore pistol. That's against the law.
 
#28 ·
How do they deal with flintlock repro's then? Old flintlocks were smooth bore. I haven't looked into this in the GCA or NFA legislation so I'm asking this one out of curiosity.
 
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